CNN: It Appears that Sikes Claims Cannot be Verified

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by DeadPhish, Mar 14, 2010.

  1. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    2,010
    353
    0
    Location:
    Outer Banks of NC.. Retired to play golf and poker
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    CNN is reporting the preliminary findings from the investigation of Sikes 2008 Prius appear to validate what many herein already believe.
    Memo: Testing didn't duplicate sticky gas pedal on man's Prius - CNN.com

    My guess is that this is the memo drafted for Issa by his staffer. The official report from NHTSA may say something different.

    Wozniak, the Hoaxer - down
    Sikes, the Scammer - probably down
    Rhonda 'Hallelujah Jesus I'm Saved' Smith -under review
    Gilbert, the Manipulator - debunked
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    24,631
    14,014
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    Thanks for the memo pointer. However, I remain curious about one aspect:
    I am by no means a brake system expert but we are used to seeing Prius going over well over 100k miles on the original brakes and rotors. It strikes me a unusual to get enough brake wear that they need to be replaced . . . a significant amount of energy.

    To wear down the brake like this, there would need to be something between two familar driving modes we are well aware of:

    1. no braking wear - vehicle speed is limited by regeneration drag augmented by any helpful grades ... a style well known by many Prius drivers.
    2. extreme wear braking - some brake and engine setting that wears out the brake pads and rotors ... something the Sikes vehicle seems to have accomplished.
    3. engine stop braking - something more than a few of us have replicated in our informal testing.
    It would help if the investigation team can document how to replicate "extreme wear braking" . . . the "Sikes methodology." It may be simple and easy or something difficult to impossible.

    • How did his vehicle wear out the brakes and rotors in 20 minutes?
    • Can we replicate this by just 'riding the brakes'?
    Thanks again for the preliminary memo,

    Bob Wilson
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,197
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Just watched the ABC news segment -

    'Investigators cannot replicate Sikes problem in his car...'

    Dan Edmunds emphasized Sikes did not try putting the car in neutral over 23 min. time despite repeated calls by the officer / 911 for him to do so. Sikes was scared the car would flip. :rolleyes:

    News did say the officer saw brake lights during the incident.

    Puzzling at best.
     
  4. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    563
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I suspect Sikes is a 2 foot driver, he uses his right foot on the accelerator and left on the brake. Often people who drive like this get lazy and use the brake pedal as a foot rest causing accelerated brake pad wear, not to mention poor fuel consumption. I'm sure you have all seen the person who drives with their brake lights on while accelerating.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. a1a1a1

    a1a1a1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    144
    3
    0
    Location:
    So Cal
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Well if he read Toyota's Owners Manual he was following their directions to a tee. Toyota explicitly states that it may "result in a loss of vehicle control" to attempt to put the vehicle in neutral, reverse or park while moving.

    He seems clueless about cars and just a driver. Why would you expect him or anyone else to disobey Toyota's directives based on someone he just met on the phone?
     
  6. aaf709

    aaf709 Ravenpaw of ThunderClan

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    3,841
    9
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    On some reports it says he had his cell phone in one hand while talking to the dispatcher. Is that true?
     
  7. a1a1a1

    a1a1a1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    144
    3
    0
    Location:
    So Cal
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Might as well add a firmware update to that and maybe a system reset, too. The investigation is chucklehead nonsense now as the vehicle was left to Toyota's unsupervised chain of custody for days after the incident.

    Also, did NHTSA do the work to prepare for the test? The car was left in the hands of dealership service technicians. What a farce that NHTSA can't even do their job without the most basic help from the implicated party. Zero neutrality here and the investigation helps no one, not Sikes and certainly not even Toyota. It's just another waste of taxpayer dollar$ on a meaningless exercise.

    No cloud is lifted, and nothing I read now or ever about the results will be able to credibly deny that a problem existed. What a joke!
     
  8. mad-dog-one

    mad-dog-one Prius Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    1,181
    417
    0
    Location:
    Whereabouts Unknown
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    ----USA----

    Good point; I agree. It seems critical to discover how his brakes got so severly worn. Does the accelerator shut off when you push the gas pedal to the floor and apply moderate brake pressure with the other foothard braking (does the throttle only release with near maximum braking)? I don't want to try this abusive test on my baby.
     
  9. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    7,028
    1,113
    0
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    What would the brakes look like if the parking brake was partially or fully set and the car was pushed to 80+ mph for 20 minutes?
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,181
    6,285
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    You would see wear on the rear brake shoes, but the front brakes would be unaffected.

    I hope that the final report will offer a theory regarding how Sikes was able to produce the excessive front brake wear on his vehicle, because given the hybrid vehicle "brake override" that exists, it is unclear to me how this happened. When I depress the brake pedal while the accelerator pedal is also depressed and at speed, it seems that engine power is diverted to MG1 to charge the traction battery.

    I'm also interested to know whether the accelerator pedal showed any signs of sticking.

    Given a two hour testing period, I don't know if it is reasonable to expect any interesting results from the test. However, since NHTSA paid to have the hybrid vehicle ECU, engine ECU, throttle body and accelerator pedal removed, maybe that agency is planning on more extensive testing of those parts in the "lab".
     
  11. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,052
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Hobbit has tested this with his instrumentation. The answer is yes, you can ride the brakes while still holding down the accelerator. If you press hard enough on the brakes the override takes over, but it doesn't prevent you from using moderate brake and accelerator.

    Tom
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    7,512
    1,169
    0
    Location:
    Carmichael, CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    I believe this is what Mr. Sikes did - he used moderate brake pressure rather than firm braking which should have enabled the brake override.

    BTW, that is obviously the worst thing to do if you really do have a stuck accelerator - you should brake hard and not release the pedal until the car stops - even if the brake override does not function, you should be able to stop the car if you brake hard from the outset.
     
  13. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    15,315
    8,608
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    And over what timeframe did that wear occur: 20 minutes, 2 years, or something else?

    The San Diego CHP/Lexus brakes displayed serious heat damage, and an abnormal type of wear and pitting, indicating very high brake pressures, from a much shorter incident. So far, none of the publicized details in the Sikes incident have hinted of similar damage.
     
Loading...