CNN Video - Experts say problem is electronic interference - not hardware or floor mats

<AHEM>Where is their evidence, their reproducible experimental procedure? "Expert" is a title and even Pons and Fleishchmann are "experts." The only problem is their results, cold fusion, have yet to be reproduced. It is what keeps honest engineers humble (or as close as we ever get.)

When diagnosing a problem or problem(s) we use the term 'ambiguity group' that refers to all possible elements that may contribute to the problem. Certainly A0B shows software can induce a problem although only 20% of 2010 owners called it severe and none of the 2004-09 owners called it severe. Having quantified the brake pause, I realized rain-slick Huntsville streets were equally at fault for a 'sliding sensation' and would have masked the brake pause. But that problem was reproducible and so far, my instrumented testing strongly suggests the brake pause is gone from the 2010 Prius ... we still have rain-slick Huntsville streets and they aren't going away.

I don't mind anyone including electronic hardware and software in their ambiguity group BUT that is not evidence or proof. At best, it is a hypothesis that requires testing. So where is the hard-core reporter asking for that evidence?

Bob Wilson

 

I do have to say that the reporter, when he was interviewing the professor, certainly made some big jumps and tried to make speculation look like fact....

 

Perhaps they don't understand ambiguity groups?

 

I've been driving for fifty years, and my Prius drives like a cupey doll. Brakes perfect.
Handling fine. "Gearbox" a dream.

You want a bear to drive? Try an old Porsche 911. That was before the recall days.

 

Are these the same "experts" that claimed gas would never go over $2 per gallon?

We want quantifiable facts, with real-world examples of the situation being triggered. Otherwise, it's just more speculation adding to the already confusing collection of claims unable to be recreated.
.

 

I think it is invisible pink ponies who stamp the pedal with their pink hooves. Now I just need to prove it. :madgrin:

 

I don't really know what's causing this unintended acceleration but I think electronics should definitely be in the "ambiguity group." I have long been afraid this ultimately could be the problem (not just with Toyota either). I think if they can't find it, they need to put in "brake to idle" software overrides in the cars. JMHO and I don't have any scientific facts to back this up. I hope & pray that investigators don't find some sort of "smoking gun" in examining Toyota's problems and past correspondence; that would definitely cause them enormous trouble and criple the brand.

On a side note, does anybody know if the 2010 Prius has "brake to idle" safety software? I've gone over with my wife about shifting into neutral should our Prius have a problem and also pushing the start button for three seconds as a last resort. I know these unintended acceleration problems haven't been found in the Prius yet (at least I think so) but I want her to know anyway.

Please don't flame me. We love our Prius and have purchased three Toyotas. However, should there ever be a problem with unintended acceleration in her car, I love her a lot more!

 

Stupidly, you can buy "Experts" by the pound! Knowing CNN, they are shopping from the "Blue Light Special" bin!!!

 

You have a 2010 Prius. Find an empty parking lot and test it out. The video on YouTube from Luscious Garage indicates that on the 2nd Gen, the hybrid system will override the accelerator when you hold down the brake pedal.

 

dogfriend,

From watching the video, I am reassured to see that the Gen II seems
to be safe vis-a-vis the brake overriding the go-pedal.

However, I'm wondering, to be 100% sure that the override is in effect,
is driving bare footed, not even socks;
1. Irrevelant
2. Optional
3. Mandatory... interestingly the root of this word is the Latin mandare,
"to put in one's hand.' Hmm... maybe in this case it would be "pedatory."

Depending, we may need a recall of shoes, or maybe feet.

 

1. and 2. She stated at the beginning of the video that she took her shoes off so that you could more easily see how she was manipulating the pedals.

But if you do not believe it, you can try to reproduce the same effect while wearing shoes.

Off topic: If you read the comments on the YouTube site, you can unfortunately see that at least one person with a foot fetish felt compelled to leave a comment. YouTube comments destroy my belief in the concept of human intelligence.

 

The more this goes on the angrier I get with the media.

So now Joe Blow CNN reporter knows for certain that Toyota didn't really have a problem with the pedals and the "fix isn't a fix"?

BS!

Toyota CAN produce evidence that under very precise conditions of enviroment and wear the pedals could be slow to rebound. And they are fixing that. Real Problem...Real Solution.

Has anyone produced any real evidence that electronic interference is causing failure of the electronic throttle control?

Because "thinking it might" or being afraid that it could, is just not enough.

I welcome an industry wide investigation, and even specific investigation/testing to Toyota's but AGAIN this video is nothing but fear mongering. Enough is enough!

 

TEM,

The video was posted to YouTube in the beginning of November.
Luscious Garage is a valid and respected Prius service/repair facility.

What exactly is the issue here?

 

Sorry, I'm talking about the CNN Video from the OP. Not the shoeless video from Luscious Garage.

So all my comments were directed at the OP's presented video.

All I'd say about the "Brake Test" is that it didn't duplicate a panic reaction. Which by that I mean a state of stuck acceleration where a user might "pump" the brakes to a state of vacume loss and total failure. Even under the "controlled" conditions that the video presents, she still accidently lets up on the brakes with the accellerator pressed, which to me is illustrative of how under a sudden, unexpected situation someone might fail to do the right things.

 

There are two (count 'em ... 2) pedals down in the footwell of the modern cars (manual transmissions excepted). You are either trying to go, or not. It is either one or the other.
Consequently, any driver who drives with their left foot on the brake and the right foot on the accelerator has developed a bad and pernicious habitat, and needs to brake (sorry, break!) it immediately. Use your right foot only to apply to the brake or the go pedal.

 

Yes, I watched this a few days ago but was wondering about our 2010. I'm sort of scared to experiment with our new car doing this but maybe when conditions are right, I'll give it a try. Never thought about this much or tried this on our G2 - 2005 Prius; wasn't as aware of the hype about unintended acceleration then.

 

I am fairly certain that she only does this for the purpose of demonstration.

You don't have to try it at 70mph like the video. You can test it at a slower speed, say 20mph just to determine if it stops quickly or not.

 

On this issue of unintended acceleration on modern cars, my understanding is that the throttle plate is activated via an electrical stepper motor that receives position signals from the accelerator position, or in the case of the cruise control, the vehicle speed sensor. I'm pretty sure it operates off the 12V system. Its position is signaled electronically from the accelerator pedal position.

In the unlikely event of complete electrical power failure to the throttle stepper motor, the return spring (a physical device), ensures closure of the throttle. Absent failure of the return spring, which is possible, this is the fail-safe device.
Is the return spring duplicated or triplicated? I don't know ... but I'm sure others do.

Any acceleration runaway would require a continuous electrical voltage spike to the stepper motor sufficient to permanently overcome the return spring. I suppose a short circuit could do it.

None of this involves these ethereal, speculative contentions that it is a stray magnetic field or something similar. This is a fly-by-wire design, not fly-by-Wi-Fi!

 

Electromagnetic interference is always a suspect. It has been a frequent cause of problems in the past. But lacking evidence, it is not the suspect.

The reporters and others who state that all the alleged incidents have to have exactly one cause, and no more than one cause, and therefore the floormat and sticky pedal recalls are bogus, are [censored].