CNW rears ugly head again

Nature designed us as carnivores, but what does nature know about nature?

Haha they ever look at our teeth we are herbivores. Or so my anthropology professor tells me.


Nitrous oxide in manure (warming effect: 296 times greater than that of carbon) and methane from animal flatulence (23 times greater) mean that "a 16 ounce T-bone is like a Hummer on a plate.''

Yes those gasses are worse than co2 but in percentages they are very low compared to co2.



We are urged to "think globally and act locally,'' as Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has done with proposals to reduce California's carbon dioxide emissions 25 percent by 2020. If California improbably achieves this, at a cost not yet computed, it will have reduced global greenhouse-gas emissions 0.3 percent. The question is:

Ok so you have to start somewhere. But again lets do nothing instead.

 

I did notice that the article specified the Hummer H3 (not the original Hummer or H2) and gave the expected lifespan of 209,000 not 300,000. They also changed the lifespan of the Prius from 100,000 to 109,000.

 

The lifespan of a Prius is 109,000 miles?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? The guy's on crack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Fuzzy Conservative Math

<my quoting MegansPrius snipped>

If you notice, humans have an appendix. Nature designed us as herbivores, and then we moved on to be omnivores. Carnivores eat only eat, and there's too much bread and peanut butter people are eating now.

I think we've spent more on the War in Iraq (almost a trillion total now?) than it would've cost to implement the Kyoto Protocol. My gf is from Japan and do you know children grow up there learning to conserve and not pollute? She was shocked to find out that the US is so provincial and backwaters to even doubt the global consensus that humans affect the climate. Then again, they are a country with 99% literacy. Personal story.

I expect more competent and better researched articles from writers of the Washington Post. But, conservative math clouds it all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Apr 13 2007, 03:41 AM) [snapback]422479[/snapback]</div>

I'd rather live in a provincial backwater where there is no consensus, even if people are often wrong, than in a place where all the kids are brought up to believe one version of the truth, even if they are more often right. Because the first system is self-correcting, and the second is not.

Thank goodness there's no consensus in Fred's!

 

A Prius traction battery contains somewhere between 5-9 kg (11-19 pounds) of nickel, according to my calculations (1500-1700 Wh capacity, 3-5 grams nickel per Wh needed). It's put to good use and recycled at end of life.

Could somebody try to find out how much nickel goes into a Hummer for stainless steel, mostly for looks? Stainless steel contains about 8% nickel. And then add the chromium to that, again mostly used for looks (door handles, roof rack, fuel filler door etc.)...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mcbrunnhilde @ Apr 13 2007, 12:45 AM) [snapback]422426[/snapback]</div>

That value isn't even the slightest bit realistic. It's blatantly insincere.

Heck, Jesse is now very close to 286,000 miles with his Classic Prius... using the ORIGINAL battery-pack!

 

I swore to myself I would not reply to another one of these threads but now I'm curious.

Why has Toyota not repsponded to the CNW article? Anyone have a contact we could send it to?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 13 2007, 08:33 AM) [snapback]422536[/snapback]</div>

Toyota issued a response called "Recycled Rubbish," although the only posting of it I know online is on Autoblogreen. Does anyone have a more maintstream cite for their response?
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/05/oh...reener-a-prius/

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Apr 13 2007, 06:38 AM) [snapback]422540[/snapback]</div>

I knew Scott would have the info.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Apr 13 2007, 05:38 AM) [snapback]422540[/snapback]</div>

That's an interesting article. We really need a sticky with the "Hummer is Greener" article and this to debunk it.

 

Zinc?! Zinc?! I'm not aware of any important quantity of zinc in the Prius. In fact the Hummer uses more, as it has more surface area (zinc corrosion proofing plating).

There was a lead/zinc mine and smelter near Trail BC causing "desert like" conditions in the area, which was closed only about 60 years ago. Perhaps they are blaming Prius for that.

However, if they are just confused (you know all those elements sound the same!) and purport that the Sudbury INCO (International Nickle Company) mine is the reason, it's bogus.

First, most of the "desert" created around that mine occurred when Toyota was just starting to build cars. It was over 30 years later that the hybrid was conceived.

Second, Toyota doesn't own or control the mine. It is an INCO mine.

Third, Toyota doesn't even build the batteries. Last I heard they were made by Matsushita (sp?) under the Panasonic name.

Fourth, the nickle in the batteries could come from that mine, however, there are many nickle mines in the world. Like any metal, it's a commodity. I doubt any author of such an article could determine exactly where it came from.

Fifth, by the time Panasonic started buying nickle, the Sudbury mine had cleaned up their act. They are no worse a polluter than any metal smelter, including steel, and maybe better, due to the close examination they are now under. So claiming the Prius is responsible for environmental disasters is just irresponsible. Oh, and the Hummer, even the H3, uses a lot more metal than the Prius.

Sixth, what about the nickle used in the Hummer! Stainless steel is about 8 to 20% nickle. There is lots of that in the Hummer, as well as nickle plating on the bumpers and body dress-up parts. Let's compare nickle weight of the two vehicles before we jump to conclusions! Even more important, the nickle in the Prius battery is easy to recycle, as it's concentrated and relatively pure. Just try recycling nickle plating! Good luck.

Seventh, why doesn't anyone dis all cars for having lead-acid batteries? The tiny Prius 12V battery uses less than 1/2 the lead that the Hummer battery uses (there, my own "off the cuff" comparison without relevant facts to back it up).

Eighth, how about the currently developing environmental disaster occurring just north of Ft. McMurray Alberta. There, three or four plants are mining oil sands and spewing sulphur across northern Alberta and Saskatchewan, not to mention the excess CO2 they generate heating the sands!
For oil, which the Hummer uses about 3-4 times as much as a Prius! These three or four plants generate about 1/3 of the CO2 Canada emits, last I heard. The Alberta Govt. doen't want to talk about this too much. Maybe I'll be blacklisted for mentioning it.

NEVER let the -facts- get in the way of a good story!

They are both cars, and both are bad for the environment. One is "badder " than the other. Which is the worst is apparently up for misinformation peddlers to decide.

What will happen to global warming if one of the "super volcanoes" erupt? There are several due soon (geologically speaking), such as Yellowstone. I suspect global warming would be over real quick. We can't, of course, rely on that, but it'll probably be the next claim of these morons. "We need that excess CO2 to protect against another ice age".

 

What I love is the lack of information that is in the Prius' favor.

It states Toyota gets 1000 tons of zinc annually from the plant, but they don't give the total overall output of the plant. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, I don't think that is anywhere near the total output of the plant. I did read somwhere that it was something like 0.03%.

They do state that the plant has been running for over a century, but the Prius nay sayers strangely don't include that little tidbit of information. Last I head, the Prius has not been around that long.

 

No rational person proposes signing on to the Kyoto protocol. Kyoto is archaic and at too low a level.

You can double your profit and cut your emissions by one-half by doubling your efficiency. Prius and Honda hybrids are more than 2X more efficient than conventional ICE vehicles. We need to extend efficiency into every aspect of our daily lives and make Kyoto moot.

Those who are arguing over Kyoto protocols have never driven a Prius and have not read: The Natural Advantage of Nations: Business Opportunities, Innovation and Governance in the 21st Century by Amory Lovins, William McDonough, Alan AtKisson, Hunter Lovins, Michael Fairbanks, Karlson Charlie Hargroves (Editor) and Michael Harrison Smith. The key is efficiency, not arbitrary treaties.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PC-12 Fan @ Apr 13 2007, 02:42 PM) [snapback]422938[/snapback]</div>

Sudbury produces about 109,000 tonnes of Nickel each year. I wonder how much nickel the Big 3 purchase.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sunnyvale Prius @ Apr 13 2007, 03:09 AM) [snapback]422483[/snapback]</div>

Don't mistake that I was describing a culture that historically has a lot of interwoven mythology about living in harmony with nature and conserving resources; maybe similar with the American Indians. It's not a single truth blindly drilled into them. Have you seen their trash disposal at the local corner or even at McDonalds? 4-5 recycling box depending on type of plastics, paper, and cans.

I postulate because of the limited land area, waste is immediately experienced, vs the grand US where education is lower, and people are taught they're God's gift to the Earth. IMO, this is where the "single truth" gets drilled in, subject to anybody popping up and people willing to blindly believe.

Ya, there's a lot of non-consensus in Flaming House of Posts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Apr 13 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]422951[/snapback]</div>

Huh, I'll be damned. I was wrong about something on this. It's actually 0.009%.

Well, that and I stated it was Zinc instead of Nickel. I also wonder how many of the "anti Prius" people have Nic-cad rechargeable batteries in thier cameras, toys, etc., etc.

Nothin' worse than a hypocrite.......

This coming from an open minded person that also has a gas guzzling Dakota Quad Cab, that I love by the way.

Is that wrong? :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sunnyvale Prius @ Apr 13 2007, 05:09 AM) [snapback]422483[/snapback]</div>

That is why the Prius is an engineering by-product of our self-correcting system, and not theirs. We're right and the Japanese "single version of the truth" simply can't get it right. :lol:

Sounds pretty silly does it not?


Cheers;


MSantos

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PC-12 Fan @ Apr 13 2007, 06:35 PM) [snapback]423048[/snapback]</div>

Only if you commute in it instead of the Prius.

BTW, it's ~ 1% (0.009 * 100).