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Color temp of factory HID's and 6000K replacements?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by plasakow, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. plasakow

    plasakow Junior Member

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    Does anyone know the color temp of factory HID's in Gen II?

    Also, is there a direct-replacement bulb that'll get me 6000K without replacing the ballasts?

    Thanks!!
     
  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    They are 4300K. All OEM bulbs sold in the states are 4300K, it is also the only legal Kelvin temp for bulbs in the states.

    You can get any D2R and it will fit. Be warned the only high quality 6000k bulb is a very expensive import from Japan ($300+ per bulb). I am guessing you are just going to order cheap chinese crap from ebay, which you do at your own peril. Generally they dont last as long, usually have manufacturing defects where the focal point is misaligned making weird striations in the light pattern, and the best is when they overheat because of the craptastic salts melting and/or deforming your reflector housing.

    And if you dont care about any of that and are willing to risk damage to the whole headlight assembly ($250+ each OEM, $110ish aftermarket without the LED strip), be warned that they are indeed illegal and is a ticketable offense accross all of the US and Canada. Rarely enforced as is the tint limit laws, but if you are pulled over for speeding or something it is relatively easy for them to tack it on there...
     
  3. plasakow

    plasakow Junior Member

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    Wow, thanks. Tell us how you really feel. Seriously, though-- What's your source of authority for color temp laws? Not disputing, just verifying. Any idea who manufactures or sells the high-quality 6K lamps?
     
  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    It has nothing to do about feeling, it is fact. I have spent many years researching HID devices. Also I have done retrofits (placing projectors into otherhousings) matching lenses, ballasts, bulbs, and bowls to get the best light output, spread, colour, and sharpness.

    The only high quality bulbs in that range are the: Phillips 85126WX/85122WX (around 6000k JDM only), Philllips 85126UB/85122UB (disputed Kelvin rating, the centres are closer to 5000k, the extremeties are closer to 6000k or more, very strange, very rare, very desirable bulb. Again JDM only), and the Phillips 85126SX/85122SX (5700K, easier to find, but they do not last as long. This bulb actually says right on the base "not intended for Europe/USA", again JDM only). The 85126** are the D2R versions, and the 85122** are the D2S versions. The D2R versions are what you need for the Prius, but are even harder to find and generally more expensive.

    Having researched a bit more on these now they have come down in price a bit. You can get them for about 13000yen to 25000yen a pair plus shipping to the states now.
     
  5. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Actually, I missed one:

    The GE 53560 is a very high kelvin bulb (around 9000K) but in general is considered lower quality. GE tried to enter the OEM bulb market but so far have failed and it is still dominated by Osram and Phillips. Note that this bulb has no D2R version that I am aware of, and also states on the base it is not for sale in Europe/USA. Some parts of East Asia have outlawed them as well, and I am not sure GE even makes them anymore.







    Also below is some info on OEM vs. Cheap fleabay crap:

    HID bulbs use expensive transition metal iodide salts. The OEM manufacturers have spent countless dollars developing precise salt mixtures that run the coolest and produce the most light. These mixture formulas are closely a closely guarded trade secret. Along with this, these salts can be VERY VERY expensive in high purities. So kit makers tend to scrimp on the amount of salts making the bulb run even hotter. This evident by the fact of when you look in the arc chamber in kit bulbs it looks virtually clear while in OEM bulbs there is a noticable yellow (or in the case of Ultinons, bright reddish brown) salt deposit.

    The second is quality control. The OEM manufacturers test each bulb before it leaves the factory. The bulbs are tested for arc chamber shape, arc chamber position, light color, light intensity, etc. Kit bulbs often are not tested at all. It is not uncommon to have arc chambers that are not in the tightly specified location or are not the proper shape. This results in weird looking cut-offs, decreased intensity etc. Also, it is not uncommon to get a pair of 6000K kit bulbs that are either more blue (closer to 8000K or 1000K) or more yellow than 6000K. Sometimes, with horrible QC a pair of supposedly matched bulbs, in fact are not, with one bulb being more yellow or blue than the other.

    In OEM bulbs the electrodes are made out of thoriated tungsten. Thoriated tungsten electrodes were introduced approximately fifty years ago as an alternative to the use of pure tungsten electrodes. Thoriated means that the electrodes contain 1-2% (by weight) of Thorium dioxide (ThO2). Thorium dioxide is added to the tungsten to promote electrode life, which helps the bulb last longer. The added thorium dioxide also promotes a more stable arc than an electrode made of pure tungsten. Aftermarket bulbs on the other hand often use the cheaper tungsten electrodes. This is another reason for the reduced life and less than desirable luminescent properties found in aftermarket bulbs.
     
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  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I thought Prius use D4R (mercury free and brighter) bulb. I don't think D4R is backward compatible with D2R bulbs.
     
  7. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    D4R and D2R are compatible electrically. D4R has no mercury (or at least less, I'm not 100% on how much if any) and just aren't as good as good 'ol D2R. I have yet to see a D4R bulb last longer than a D2R bulb. They also seem to lose more lumens faster than their D2R equivalents.

    The bulb bases are different. However a little knife or saw and you can make the required notch on the bulb's base.

    If you want to buy these super exclusive bulbs like the OP wants, I dont think they make them in mercury free versions. Really the only downside is that when you throw them away, you are throwing away mercury bulbs.
     
  8. plasakow

    plasakow Junior Member

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    Toast: Mind taking a look at this: D2R HID Bulbs Philips Pair [D2R Philips] ?

    I'm not overly concerned with getting ticketed because of 6000K, which is without question far more white than blue (I was a specialty lighting factory rep until recently). I'm more concerned about avoiding the deer that populate my 30-mile nightly commute.

    I'm attempting to find out if the DOT where I live has anything in writing concerning what constitutes "blue". Any such regulations would almost certainly be handled at the state level, since the feds, I believe, restrict their oversight to safety issues. Of course, I could be wrong, and usually am.


     
  9. Ryanpl

    Ryanpl Active Member

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    usb, the 04 and or hids are the D2R. Toyota changed the bulbs with the 06 model.
     
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  10. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Usually the exact colour is determined by the states individually, but is also generally set at 4300K universally. Also it is sort of Federally mandated...

    The feds require each projector and reflector and combination thereof in a full assembly to be tested with a specific bulb. This bulb is what they use to make sure the lumen output is sufficient along with aiming, and patterns, and crash testing and so on. The federal requires go on to say that only bulbs that have been tested in the housing are legal to be used when replacing the bulb. Since the OEMs all use 4300k when testing, the only legal replacement bulb is a 4300k bulb.

    If your goal is to see deer, then you want more light, not less. The higher the Kelvin rating, the lower the luminous output, not more... Notice how 4300K is in the best place, the "sweet spot" as it is known, and also why it is standard.

    [​IMG]

    I always suggest a full retrofit, but I realize that is not possible for many people. You can farm it out, but expect to pay out the whazoo. That's why these kits are so popular, they are easy and cheap. In your case if you want more light, then I would suggest an easier solution of changing your ballasts from the OEM Denso 35W ballasts to some aftermarket 50W ballasts. The DDM ballasts are surprisingly good quality in a package about 1/4 the size of the Denso ones. They are digital instead of analogue, and they are not potted. So if you get the DDM ones, I would then use hotglue to seal the headlight housing area where the ballast is for extra water security. You will get more light with 50W, also it will boost the kelvin rating of standard bulbs naturally, but the tradeoff is the light will run hotter, use more salts, and burn out faster. Either the salts will burn or the fillament will burn and die.

    More more expensive but better suggestion is to replace the ballasts with 50W, and then get some Phillips DL50 or Phillips 740 bulbs which are true 50W bulbs meant to last. They are not even approved for automotive use anywhere in the world, but will work. The first generation had a larger base that will not fit, so make sure you get new ones. Again these are uber expensive, and there is no possibility of them being even a little bit legal, but it will work and serve the purpose.



    Now as to the link you posted, I would not trust them. They are showing what looks to be a genuine 85126 in the picture, but that is a standard 4300K bulb that shifts to 5000K after 100hours or so of use. Impossible for it to be 6000k. Any compnay that says they can get genuine 6000k for the same price as genuine 4300k I say is importing them from China with an illegal copy-cat factory. These factories produce "Phillips" bulbs similar to how you can buy a Gucci bag on the streets of New York for $50. They look the same, but are definately not the same. That price seems fair for 4300k, but not 6000k. I would demand a picture of the actual product packaging and bulb that you are purchasing. Make sure you see the product code in full like the 85122UB below:

    [​IMG]

    Also note how in their picture the salt chamber is conveniently hidden by the D2R blackouts... What are they hiding? I would ask for a closeup of the salt chamber as well. When you are paying good money for good bulbs, they will not mind. If you are paying good money for cheap crap and they think you can tell the difference, you might not get a reply back.


    I hope this helps. I abolutely hate HID kits and try my best to inform people on HIDs. Sometimes people retain the info, other times they buy the $50 all inclusive kit from ebay, put it into their non-HID reflectors, blind the masses and call it a day.
     
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  11. plasakow

    plasakow Junior Member

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    Thanks, Toast. You seem to know what you're talking about. What about heat and longevity issues when pumping 50W through a lamp designed to draw 35?
     
  12. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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