Comparison with other PHEVs?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by maiki, Sep 23, 2021.

  1. maiki

    maiki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    103
    16
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    As I mentioned in my recent post called Auto Brake, I was in a collision last Friday night with my 2018 Prius Prime Advanced. (Read that post for more details.) I was notified by my insurance today that they will not repair my car, but total it and pay me something for it. (I don't yet know how much they will pay me.)

    So now I need to buy a new car, and need to decide what to buy. I like my Prius Prime, so may buy one again. But I probably should look at other options too. I like driving EV, but am a bit afraid of getting an EV only car, nice to have gas available as a backup, etc. So probably a PHEV again, whether Prius Prime or a different one this time? Has anyone recently compared current PHEV models? What did you find out? Advantages and disadvantages of different models?
     
  2. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    1,484
    1,001
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Not sure about California but around here pickin's are sparse.
     
    maiki likes this.
  3. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    2,567
    779
    0
    Location:
    Arcadia, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    We have an '18 Honda Clarity PHEV. We "upgraded" from a '13 Ford C-MAX Energi, which is also a PHEV. There's a lot more EV range in the Clarity vs the C-MAX, and it is a liquid cooled battery which is a plus for battery life, (which was bad in the C-MAX as it was air cooled), and prone to degradation not covered under warranty. But My Ford Mobile app had/has so many features that I miss....
     
    maiki likes this.
  4. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2018
    416
    277
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I test drove a Clarity PHEV a few years ago and felt it was nicer than a Prius Prime. It had more power, more EV range, more luxurious with the Touring trim, more interior space, but a small gas tank. The Prime had better mpg, hatch, bigger gas tank. But good luck finding a new Clarity since there's less than 30 in the whole US. Plus it's been discontinued.

    Check these other PHEVs for more selection: RAV4 Prime, Escape PHEV, Ioniq PHEV, Niro PHEV.
     
    maiki, Marine Ray and jzchen like this.
  5. Froglegs

    Froglegs Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2020
    28
    18
    0
    Location:
    Ny
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    At this point, I'd consider getting a used car to hold me over until the 2023 PP comes out. It's supposed to be a new generation, and will no doubt have longer range and better tech (we can hope). Currently, I don't think the PP has any direct competitors. The Ionic plug-in comes close, but with a 60hp electric motor (vs 90 in the PP), not really.
     
    maiki likes this.
  6. maiki

    maiki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    103
    16
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Any suggestions for buying a used car? I wouldn't know where to start. My last three cars I bought new, and kept using the prior 2 for 17 years or so.(this one totaled after 3 years)
     
  7. MTN

    MTN Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    241
    205
    2
    Location:
    SB, CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    The used car market is so overpriced right now, that you would be best served [financially] buying a new PHEV and taking all rebates, tax credits, etc and then selling it / trading it if you want to end up in a 2023 PP. The offers will easily offset the depreciation and you might actually "make" money on the deal.
    Very unlikely to do that with a used car purchase in the current environment.

    Check for all local and utility rebates that might apply to a PHEV purchase along with manufacturer incentives and see what is available to you.
     
    maiki, jzchen and dig4dirt like this.
  8. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    826
    684
    0
    Location:
    Sparks, NV
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    As mentioned by previous contributers, you have many PHEV options - 32. For me, what is the insurance company paying? Then what can you buy? Because of the current inflated used/new car market, say they give you $25K today (whereas 6 months ago it may have been $20K). If you can wait and your transportation needs are satisfied, I'd pocket the $25K and wait for this current market to cool down, if it does. I would not be surprised if the current inflated trend is the new norm because car manufacturers have found they can make more profit. PHEV Models Currently Available in the US – EVAdoption
     
  9. HolyPotato

    HolyPotato Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    91
    7
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I was looking recently but only semi-seriously. The PP has a lot going for it, but the decrease in trunk space from the Gen3 was a deal-breaker for me (Tideland pointed out I can get a cargo box for those occasional big trips, but I'm still leery -- the Gen3 is the perfect size for us and it's hard to go down). If you're happy with the cargo space and size of the PP, I think it's hard to do any better...

    I looked at the Rav4 Prime and the Ford Escape PHEV, which are more zero-compromise: the batteries are cleverly placed below so you get a lot of workable cargo room. The Escape drove fine, fairly similar to my Prius (bit higher, bit squishier ride, tiny bit more power). And so did the Rav4 (in both cases testing the regular hybrid as the PHEVs aren't in stock to test). The Escape's a bit cheaper and the waiting lists (at least in Ontario) are a bit shorter. I'm leaning slightly toward the Escape PHEV, in part because to get some of the nifty options on the Rav4 Prime it becomes very expensive (in Canada they don't even let you pick a fun colour unless you get an XSE).

    A lot of the others I wrote off without even looking at them in person: I'm leery of their approach of slapping an electric motor into a regular car/SUV and calling it a PHEV. A number of them have conventional multi-speed transmissions, and I know the eCVT/power-split device that Toyota and Ford use is nigh indestructible, while conventional transmissions can be troublesome, and I don't know how they'll hold up to suddenly having a torquey electric motor slapped in there. And while the point of a PHEV is to get ~90% of our driving electrified, many of the other offerings have lousy gas mileage when you do run out of EV range (e.g. the Volvo and Audi offerings appear to be standard Otto-cycle engines). Or, they had the same issue of less cargo space than the Gen3 Prius (Ioniq, Kia Niro).

    The Ioniq is perhaps the closest direct competitor to the PP, so if you're happy with your cargo space it may be worth looking at.

    Anyway, hope that helps. As for me, I'm still mulling about in analysis paralysis mode, and hoping that some Gen5 Prius news will come out, perhaps Toyota will manage to pull the same no-compromise trick for the 5th gen PP that they did for the Rav4 Prime and then waiting for that will become the obvious choice.
     
    MTN likes this.
  10. maiki

    maiki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    103
    16
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    What about leasing a car for a couple years until there are better models and availability? I have never leased a car before, don't know how that works, but wondering if that might be a viable option, since it doesn't sound like this is a good time to buy a new car?
     
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,813
    7,061
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Sorry to read about the accident. I hope you get substantial payment for your totaled PRIME. As for the replacement car, I do think a lease is a good option in the current seller's market, but that is only if you can find a reasonably priced lease. A lease contract has more flexible ways to extract payment from the lessee than purchase. You have to read small prints very carefully so that you don't end up with unexpected fees. IIRC reading in your other post, your annual mileage is low so the 10K mile limit should not be a problem. My golden rule for the lease program is combined payments, that is down payment, a total of regular payments, any fees associated with the lease when you return the car, should not exceed 1/3 of the MSRP for a 3-year lease. For example, if the car has $30K MSRP, then the total payments of everything should be less than $10K. In essence, when you lease, you are paying for the depriciation. If you are paying more than 1/3 of the original value of the car, then it is too high.

    I have seen fantastic lease deals on Ioniq, Leaf, Clarity in the past, but I don't know if those lease programs even exist now. Toyota-backed leases especially on Prime tend to be higher cost than purchase.

    Another possibility is to check the repairability of the Prime that is going to be totaled. The insurance calls it "totaled" because it cost more to repair it than pay off the fair market value of the vehicle. Sometimes, the damaged car can be repaired for far less than what the insurance company estimates. This is usually ture for older cars with mostly cosmetic damages, but it may be worth checking in your case. I once had an older car with a full coverage driven by my son. He had an accident and caused mostly cosmetic body damages. My insurance company called it "totaled", but the car was still drivable and certainly the cosmetic body damages were repairable. I ended up buying back the "totaled" car from the insurance company and fixing it cheaply. Reregistered it as previously totaled and repaired car. In the end, I got a perfectly drivable car fixed for much less than the insurance pay-off check I received. But before you do, you may want to make sure your state allows re-titling the car previously called totaled. As I remember reading an article that said some states do not allow this.
     
    maiki and Marine Ray like this.
  12. maiki

    maiki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    103
    16
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Replying to Salamander_King

    The car is not drivable. So I could not drive it to a mechanic to get a different estimate. The front end is totally smashed up, although the rest of the car (sides, back, top, interior, all glass, tires, etc.) look fine. As I said, only 7,200 miles on it.

    They quoted a valuation of it to me now of $22,745. Way too low IMO. (I paid close to $35,000.) I need to negotiate.

    Are you saying that for a one year lease you have to pay one third of the sticker price of the car? Certainly not worth it then. Or is that for more years?
     
    #12 maiki, Sep 25, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,813
    7,061
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    No. 1/3 rule is for 3 years closed-end lease. A 3-year lease is the most popular term of the lease. You may find 2 years or 4 years lease, but I have never seen a 1-year lease. Usually, a lease shorter or longer ends up paying more for the depreciation.

    Yeah, try to get more at least fair market replacement value for the year make and mileage. You can find the number easily on any of car sites like Cars.com, KBB, Edmunds, etc.
     
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    15,335
    8,629
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I strongly suspect leasing will be equally hampered by the very same primary problem as buying: supply shortage. You can't lease a car they don't have, any easier than you can buy it.

    And when you do find one available, it seems likely that if the leasing agents expect the current automobile supply shortage to be resolved three years from now, with a corresponding drop in selling prices, they will price that into the lease.
     
    maiki likes this.
  15. maiki

    maiki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    103
    16
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I have never leased before. I usually buy a new car, and keep it for a long time, until it is totally kaput. The car I had before the current one was for 17 years 2001-2018. The thing is, to buy a new car, I do research, decide what car I want, exactly which features and color I want, and wait until someone has exactly what I want. (If more than one dealer has it, I see which will give me the best price for it.)

    But it sounds like the car supply is so tight now, I might not be able to do that now. And I can't wait too long, as I have no car now, only a rental for a couple more weeks.

    So I thought of leasing as a temporary thing, until I can buy what I want. (Which I don't know yet- Perhaps another Prime, but not yet sure?) (And if a Prime, I read that the 2023 model will be much improved, but that is not available now, perhaps in a year?)

    So I thought of perhaps leasing to give me a car to use before I buy. (For the long run, I think much better to own than lease, no?) (Regarding availability, I would not be as picky in leasing a car as in buying a car, as I would know it is temporary, to tide me over before I buy.) (In fact, although I intend to eventually buy a new car, if I lease one temporarily, I would be fine with a used car in good condition, for a lease. Or are only new cars leased?)

    Don't know about being locked in a lease for 3 years though? 1 year would be better. Can one get out of a lease? Or does one have to pay for three years in advance?
     
    #15 maiki, Sep 26, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,813
    7,061
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    This article might answer your questions. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/one-year-car-lease

    I have never done anything other than 3 years closed-end lease, but I did get out of one lease term early to get into another because our car needs were changed before the end of the term with the arrival of additional family members. So, it can be done, but you usually end up paying more if you do not fulfill the lease term. I have never heard of a used car lease, but it might exist if you look hard. But a lease contract is much more complex than simply buying a used car, I would think you really need to read a small print before signing. Good luck.
     
    maiki likes this.
  17. MTN

    MTN Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    241
    205
    2
    Location:
    SB, CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    maiki - put the vin or license into Carvana, Shift, Vroom and get price estimates for them to buy it, if it wasn't wrecked. That should give you more data points to prove to the insurance company what the current fair market value is.
     
  18. maiki

    maiki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    103
    16
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Tried Carvana. $400! Ridiculous! 2018 PP Advanced, 7240 miles, perfect condition, no problems. I guess they don't like PPs. (Try putting yours in there and see what they offer.)

    Tried Vroom $7443 better than Carvana, but still ridiculously low. I don't know why anyone would sell their car to one of these companies, Certainly not the current fair market value. (I am sure they would sell the car for MUCH more.)
     
    #18 maiki, Sep 28, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,813
    7,061
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    That's strange. I sold my 10-month-old 2020 PP LE with 4000miles to Carvana last year. They paid at least $2k higher than any dealer's offer for trade-in. I have read many others claiming Carvana giving the top $ for their used PP. Of course, Carvana's price is trade-in value so it would be lower than the fair market value. What you need is the local price of the car of your make, model, and condition for purchase not for sale. Have you tried Cars.com, KBB, Edmunds?
     
    #19 Salamander_King, Sep 28, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
    MTN and maiki like this.
  20. maiki

    maiki Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    103
    16
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Just tried KBB and Edmunds, looked at their projected price to sell to private party. Much better. KBB said

    Private party range: $27,239-29,618 Private party value $28,444
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
Loading...