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Confessions of a Liar

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by EricGo, Nov 9, 2006.

  1. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/opinions...p-8286354c.html

    Bush admitted he'd been less than honest about the changes at Defense.

    Asked at Wednesday's news conference about his Cheney-Rumsfeld stay-the-course declaration of the week before, Bush admitted he'd misled reporters.

    "I didn't want to inject a major decision about this war in the final days of a campaign," Bush said of his interview with The Associated Press and other reporters.

    "And so the only way to answer that question, and to get you onto another question was to give you that answer. ... The other reason why is I hadn't had a chance to visit with Bob Gates yet, and I hadn't had my final conversation with Don Rumsfeld yet, at that point."


    Translated: he had a hidden agenda. What liar doesn't ?
    I think this is illuminating, as one of the few examples of the shrub not just reading canned text.
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I give him an easy "pass" on this.
    If a reporter asks him if he's launching the assault on the enemy at 9pm tonight, and the plan is to launch the assault at 9pm tonight, he'd be a fool and it would be a danger to our men for the president to say "I cannot tell a lie, the assault will be at 9pm tonight."

    In the case above he was in a similar corner. Such an announcement would have dramatic reprecussions on the election. Even though the reporters were on target the pres had little choice in his responses...."No Comment" would be interpreted as an affirmation.

    The president needs to lie about some things of immediate import and national security import. His words carry a tad more weight than yours or mine. Certainly there's a fuzzy line somewhere and I don't want him crossing that to the point that he's deceiving the nation on issues we need to know about ("no, the enemy is not breaching our shores"), but some issues that could have serious reprecussions need to be handled carefully.
     
  3. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    So tell me Evan, did his lie protect national security ? That is the standard NeoCon excuse for every travesty, and I'm surprised to see you repeating it.

    An honest president would say: "I do not discuss invasion times, for obvious reasons." The shrub likewise could have said "I do not speculate on the future make-up of my cabinet, for obvious reasons".
     
  4. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 9 2006, 11:54 AM) [snapback]346341[/snapback]</div>
    If his responding accurately to the question would have swayed the voting results the other way, then yes he did protect national security. Of course, he wouldn't heave meant to. :huh:
     
  5. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    I appreciate the humor Tony, but the IF .. WOULD syntax is the point here.

    Lying is such a slippery slope, when it is rationalized by the possibility of a chance of a non-zero event.
     
  6. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 9 2006, 12:15 PM) [snapback]346309[/snapback]</div>
    Uhhhh, then why was Saddam convicted on the eve of a major election? I'm sorry, but I feel that President Bush's credibility is perhaps not all that it could be when it comes to truth, lies and knowing which one is which. There were other ways to answer the question without actually telling a lie, as has already been demonstrated above.

    I don't think I'd let him off so easily. It was becoming pretty clear that the Democrats would take control; this administration seems willing to try just about anything in the name of self-preservation...I think there's at least a shadow of a doubt.
     
  7. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Nov 9 2006, 12:42 PM) [snapback]346329[/snapback]</div>
    I think you have it correct.

    I am amazed at the amount of hate President Bush generates.

    I am almost amazed at the amount of hate that is possible to be generated by people in general.
     
  8. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 9 2006, 01:27 PM) [snapback]346362[/snapback]</div>
    While I don't hate him personally or as a politician, I do resent the way this adminstration (and since he's the boss, Mr. Bush *has* to accept responsibility) has tended to sometimes talk a moderate line...but when push comes to shove, it throws fresh red meat to its hardline neoconservative power base.

    I think it's safe to say that our administration tends to value some individuals more than others, and has no problem saying so. I also believe that Mr. Bush's positioning of himself as 'inclusive' only begs the question, to whom...?

    There has been a worsening breech of trust between the people and the politicians, and this is only the latest manifestation of the problem.
     

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  9. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 9 2006, 01:27 PM) [snapback]346362[/snapback]</div>
    He generates about as much as both Clintons, Pelosi, Howard Dean, Tom DeLay, or Dick Cheyney. Big surprise. People on the left dislike the leaders on the right. People on the right dislike leaders on the left. Nothing amazes me when it comes to politics.
     
  10. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    I think the real problem is that it's easy to generate hate (from shock art to everything else that's 'shocking') but lots more difficult not to.

    I think that hate is one of those emotions which closes down logical thought...at that point, people are thinking irrationally anyway and so might be receptive to additional hate/fear messaging.

    Getting us to hate each other is a tool that is well used by the power elite on both sides of the political spectrum.
     
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 9 2006, 11:54 AM) [snapback]346341[/snapback]</div>
    I didn't say that point was about national security, what I said was:
    This would fall under the "Immediate import" portion of those 2 things. The "I don't discuss....." answer might have been a more politically correct choice, but it doesn't matter, he shouldn't and didn't discuss something like a change of command in a cabinet level position on the eve of an election. That's what matters, IMO, not the means that he chose to avoid giving the information away.


    What I do think is interesting is that Bush has held 4 live press conferences in the past 36 hours (or less)...2 for the Rumsfeld thing, one for reasons not clear to me where he simply stood for a photo op w/ the rest of his cabinet, and one w/ Pelosi where they pretended to like one another and said all the right things to make us feel good before they start sucking the marrow from one another's bones next week!
     
  12. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    Of course the President isn't going to say, “yes, I'm getting rid of Rummy . . . but I don't know who his replacement is quite yet.â€

    How demoralizing to the troops in Iraq would that have been?! :angry:

    Imagine the feeding frenzy of guessing the reason, who the replacement would be, statements of who is and who isn't fit to hold the position, and overall political punditry of the left concerning the timing of releasing the news just before and election. :blink:

    During the same news conference, a clarifying question was asked a few minutes later:
    Q Mr. President, thank you. Can I just start by asking you to clarify, sir, if, in your meeting with Steve and Terry and Dick, did you know at that point --
    THE PRESIDENT: I did not.
    Q -- you would be making a change on Secretary Rumsfeld?
    THE PRESIDENT: No, I did not. And the reason I didn't know is because I hadn't visited with his replacement -- potential replacement.
    Q But you knew he would be leaving, just not who would replace him?
    THE PRESIDENT: No, I didn't know that at the time.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20061108-2.html

    But of course, EricGo knows better what the President was thinking and how to run the affairs of the country. :rolleyes: :lol:
     
  13. Alnilam

    Alnilam The One in the Middle

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Nov 9 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]346423[/snapback]</div>
    But it all depends on what the meaning of "that" is. Sound familiar? Weasel words!

    The elections confirm that EricGo, and most of the rest of America, think they know better than Bush how to run the affairs of the country.

    Yet the Red Lemmings march ever onward, staying the course, right up to the edge of the cliff.

    <_< :( :) :D :p :angry: :blink: :huh:
    (Added for depth!)
     
  14. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    Mostly because they do. I know *I* couldn't have wracked up as much debt, killed off as many U.S. soldiers, and caused so much worldwide hatred of the U.S. even if I tried.

    Of course, since I love this country I would never have done that.
     
  15. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 9 2006, 12:15 PM) [snapback]346309[/snapback]</div>
    Just a quick note... With all the close elections that the Repubs lost - how many recounts have they demanded, how many lawyers have filed actions pertaining to the elections?? Hope when the tables are reversed, the Dems have the same class.
     
  16. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 9 2006, 03:26 PM) [snapback]346464[/snapback]</div>
    This is a cheap shot which I knew was going to be made.
    Gore had the votes to win - the only thing that stopped him was the supreme court.
    Allen knew he did not have the votes to win.
    End of story.
     
  17. Walker1

    Walker1 Empire

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    I voted against every Republican this time. As George W had NO checks or balances with the House & Senate- (His People) I felt it was my duty to put the idiot Dems. in this time. The truth is the only people who are happy with the economy are wealthy. It comes down to this: I have always played by the rules. I can't even get a full time job. Economy?? It sucks for me and many others in the lower middle class income bracket. How much longer do we have to endure either political parties in this country? I firmly believe that a new party is desperately needed. I would name it "We The People."

    As to the war, we NEVER should have been there to begin with. Young men & women are DYING every single day for NO GOOD REASON! I saw over 1/2 of my graduating class end up in 'Nam and about 60% of those that came back alive were fu**ed up.

    I can't believe how STUPID most Americans are about everything. Thaey believe everything our lying politicians and the TV set tell them. The Dems. will be kicked out on their worthless asses in 2 years if they don't help people like me.

    I really enjoyed the drop in the stock market. It does my heart good to know some of the wealthy might lose a few million today. Screw all of them along with our so called elected do nothing officials. They all damn well better start taking care of us middle class people that can't make it anymore because the rich care not for anyone else.

    I'm tired of a govt. that refuses to do the will of the majority of the people instead of taking care of the wealthy and our thieving large corporations. Here's a laugh. Walmart is going to say "Merry Christmas" to all it's customers this year. Wow! I guess we should believe that that bunch of billionaires are nice folks now? I suppose there will be flocks of sheeple rushing to shop at Walmart 'cause they gave them back Christmas. I can't wait to see George Carlin live on Dec. 12th and hear his take on the latest events. He usually hits the nail on the head about how stupid people are in general. I mean, they re-elected George W a 2nd tim, right? They just re-elected Billary Clinton and good 'ol Teddy Kennedy for the 50th?? time in Mass.

    The time is here to put maximum term limits on all politicians so there won't be anymore career criminals running the show. I have a hard time with folks in Mass. putting faith in any Kennedy. makes me think of that big bag of wind Rush Limbaugh. The guy who got fired from 38 radio stations and just got lucky once late at night when the bosses weren't around. Some people have all the good luck. I'm done venting.
     
  18. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    "I can't believe how STUPID most Americans are about everything. Thaey believe everything our lying politicians and the TV set tell them. The Dems. will be kicked out on their worthless asses in 2 years if they don't help people like me."

    I agree. Most Americans would rather die than think. They would rather be dead than well-read. And people who don't think for themselves do, in fact, wind up dead in places like Vietnam and Iraq. The first thing to realize is that the elite despises the people and will exploit them, lie to them, tax them, kill them wherever there is an opportunity do do so at a profit. The world is run by the most dangerous criminals of all - the ones who make the laws. You can guess why this is not taught in schools.
     
  19. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Nov 9 2006, 04:17 PM) [snapback]346513[/snapback]</div>
    Why are you here in the US if you despise it sooo much. Why dont you move to a more socialized, civilized country like France?? Their elite do not exploit or tax or lie to the underlings....
     
  20. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Since we're throwing around generalities.....
    And the poor blame the rich b/c they won't help them, all the while they won't help themselves.

    Come on folks. The rich aren't to blame for the ills of the world and the answer isn't to punish the rich for being rich. This falacy that somehow the rich have this fabulous free ride while the poor and the ones carrying the burden is just vile spewed from bitter spite or ignorance of the facts. While I'm far from "rich" I can assure you that better than 50% of my earned income goes to state and federal taxes. I also pay property tax...a lot on the 5 major properties and 2 cars I own. And that's not to mention the sales taxes I pay on stuff I buy...which is significantly more stuff than a person of lower income can afford. Then I shove away every possible dollar for retirement in the full expectation that there will not be a pension or Social Security when I come of that age.

    My tax burden is quite adequate, thank you.