Confusion on 2010 Motor Oil

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by anxious, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. plevan74

    plevan74 New Member

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    When I called the 2 closest Toyota dealers from me, both told me that
    they would charge regular price for whatever the 2010 Prius called for.
    When I inquired about the surcharge for 0W20 synthetic oil, they said
    (paraphrasing) "yep, it's extra for synthetic, but not for non-synthetic
    0W20". One of them also mentioned that 0W20 was the same oil used by
    Honda and they had it in non-synthetic.

    So I googled for : 0w20 non-synthetic honda. And the search results
    from cleanmpg.com, honda-tech.com, hybridcars.com, toyotanation.com
    and insightcentral.net (sorry, I can't paste links yet) do mention
    non-synthetic Honda & Toyota 0W20 (but 3 of those threads are more
    than 2 years old and all those threads also have nay-sayers).

    So, which of the following rings truer ?
    a) Toyota and Honda do have conventional 0W20 but you can't find it
    on the shelves, which is why common wisdom is that 0W20 is only
    synthetic
    b) Toyota and Honda have 0W20 but it is really synthetic although
    those dealers will use it at no extra cost
    c) Everybody who has been assured an oil change with 0W20 with no
    surcharge for synthetic oil has been talking to somebody who
    has no clue

    One thing is certain : I will definitely make a point of asking
    again explicitly for the price of an oil change with 0W20 (but not
    insist on synthetic since the manual only says 0W20), before I leave
    my car for service. I may try elsewhere if the price seems outrageous
    but what I definitely don't want is to end up with the regularly priced
    wrong oil because the service person is ignorant.
     
  2. eddiehaskell

    eddiehaskell Member

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    It would be nice if someone could ask to see the conventional 0w-20 bottle of oil while in the service department.

    With many of the service departments quoting $25-30 for an oil change, I would make certain they are using the correct oil. Many of them haven't dealt with a '10 and just assume it uses the same stuff as gen 2s.
     
  3. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    I vote for choice c. I think it's possible that dealers will use 5W-20 every oil change because that's what they have. I wouldn't consider it a problem because I am pretty sure the decision to require 0W-20 every other oil change was not an engineering decision based on what was best for the engine. I suspect it has to do with adding a very small amount to the EPA mileage figure. That along with all of the other very small amounts they added for different things most likely gave them a better number to advertise. I have no evidence for that it's just speculation, for what it's worth.

    I suspect the engine would survive just as long on 5W-20 or even 5W-30. If the dealer changes it and uses the wrong oil you should be covered anyway especially if they lie about what they use. Some of them were using 10W-40 bulk oil in the Gen2, I know because I ask one of the head mechanics and he admitted it.

    As far as the warranty is concerned if you used 5W-20 exclusively and there was an engine failure Toyota would need to prove that using 5W-20 every time instead of every other time caused the failure. I think that would be impossible to prove. That's my 2 cents worth.

    But I'll still use 0W-20 because it's the same price as the 5W-20 if you use synthetic. I will use Mobil 1 and when the warranty period is over I will go to 7500 mile oil change intervals.
     
  4. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    2010 oil filter

    I just did a search for 2010 Prius oil filters and came up with:
    NAPA 7064
    WIX 57064

    I think this 2ZR FXE engine is just an Atkinson cycle version of the 1.8 L Corolla engine, if so it most likely uses the same oil filter, can anyone confirm that? If that's true there should be a bunch of after market oil filters available.
     
  5. KJF

    KJF Member

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    As part of my 2010 Prius purchase deal, I asked that the dealer swap my new/unused in-the-package-in-perfect-condition-Toyota-oil-filters and air filters for my 1987 Toytoa Corolla (purchased from them). At first, the parts guy said I could just keep the same filters as they would work for the 2010. I respectfully said "no, I don' think so - the 2010 filters have no metal canister on them". So he looked it up and agreed. This is what he gave me: Element Kit, Oil 04152-YZZA6 (made in Thailand!). The box contains the "paper" filter and a rubber O ring.
     
  6. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

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    Without disclosing too much, I can state with good certainty that Honda's 0W20 is not a full synthetic. It is a blend formulated "in-house" specifically for their low friction engines.

    In reality, there's really nothing special about it, but it more than meets the minimum SAE 0W20 specifications. A fully synthetic 0W20 (like Mobil 1) offers no significant advantage over the blend mainly because the oil change cycles are governed by the Maintenance Minder which keeps track of the oil life. Oil analysis reveal degradation rates comparable to that of a fully synthetic.

    Now with the Prius III, this will be the first time I will be using a Toyota branded 0W20 which I am quite certain is a blend as well (confirmed via the service literature). In the past I used Mobil 1 0W20 with the Gen 2 Prii without ill effects, but that is because my dealer did not offer the Toyota branded 0W20 as they do now.

    Because of my experience with the Hondas and because the Toyota branded 0W20 is cheaper I will be using it instead of the fully synthetic brands like Mobil 1.


    Cheers;

    MSantos
     
  7. stream

    stream Senior Member

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    I'm curious where you got that info from, since the bottle of Toyota branded 0W-20 I bought at the dealer says "Full Synthetic" on the front label.

    Could you post the service literature you're referring to?
     
  8. TKY

    TKY Member

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    If I take my Prius into a Toyota dealership service department and ask them to change the oil using the 0W20 as required by the cars manual, does it matter if they use a fossil oil, a full synthetic, a blended oil, or a 5W20? As long as Toyota performs the service and I do not ask for service or parts out of compliance, wouldn't the warranty be preserved? --TK
     
  9. plevan74

    plevan74 New Member

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    Except for the 5W20, which I wouldn't find acceptable
    from a Toyota dealer, given that it is not the preferred
    grade in the documentation, I too feel that as long as
    I ask for "whatever the manual says" from a dealer
    my a** should be covered.

    The main reason I'd like to get to the bottom of
    the synthetic/non-synthetic debate is to get a
    better idea of a reasonable price for service so
    I can compare it to the cost of the pre-paid
    maintenance (I'm not a DIYer).

    If I can really get 0W20 oil change and tire rotation
    for $45 (which is the price one of the dealers gave me),
    pre-paid maintenance goes right out the window.
    But if the price was wrong and they will have to charge
    me $40 extra because "oh, we just realized you said 0W20
    and we only have synthetic", then it's a different story.
     
  10. eddiehaskell

    eddiehaskell Member

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    If the dealer puts in the wrong oil I'd be covered, but I would rather just pay the correct amount and not have to worry about something getting damaged. Granted, I don't know if using 5w20 could ever damage anything. If the dealer would let be bring in a $20 jug of Mobil1 and pay $20 for labor (they charge $25 for a regular oil change)....that's what I'd do. They want $70-75 using their oil. :(
     
  11. TKY

    TKY Member

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    Plevan74 & Eddie, I agree it's much less hassle to use the right supplies and avoid problems. I expect different grades and different brands have different additives and cleaning supplements in their motor oil and maybe synthetic oil has some unique property that eliminates some sludge building or has some cleaning property that fossil oil doesn't.

    You can probably tell I'm not a car guy. As you say, the issue is what's a reasonable & fair price. So, if it makes sense to buy synthetic oil to provide, I'll do that as long as I'm not charged for the oil the shop would 'normally' use. Thanks --TK
     
  12. MZT

    MZT Junior Member

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    Any thoughts on this one:
     
  13. MZT

    MZT Junior Member

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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    A new drain bolt? Seems a little much.

    I'd stick with 0W20.

    Seems overpriced.
     
  15. tonycd

    tonycd Member

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    Holy Thread Resurrection!

    A quick web search suggests MSantos is correct: Honda sells a 0W-20 synthetic blend.

    I am curious about the earlier poster who said Toyota's recommended oil change interval is 5,000 miles. I believe that's only for severe service, although I personally suspect (based on no evidence) that the ring problems and oil consumption on these cars happened partly because of the combination of the water-thin oil and the too-long 10,000 mile oil change interval.

    I will say I find it a remarkable achievement to get 0W-20 properties out of a non-fully synthetic oil. That means the oil is able to keep flowing in very cold temperatures, a trick formerly reserved for full synthetics alone, and one of the biggest reasons to pay extra for them.
     
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