Considering Buying a PiP... Please Check My Math

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Sedition, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. John H

    John H Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    2,208
    556
    0
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I would seriously look at a EV like a leaf for those driving habits. You can get a ZipCar for the day when you need to take a trip longer than 100 miles.
     
  2. Sedition

    Sedition New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    11
    1
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Ok, thanks for all of the input, all. You've given me quite a bit to consider.
    Boy, you ain't kidding... So I spoke with one dealer, and they are offering crazy incentives right now on PiP.$4600 cash back @ 0% financing. Then he knocked off another $1000 when I told him I was planning to shop around at other dealers. So that's before speaking to anyone else, and before even negotiating.

    On the otherhand, the dealer incentives on the Gen III's are somewhat underwealming by comparison. Add it all up, and the PiP is just $1075 more than a standard Prius. Then the mileage delta on my first calculation drops from 67K miles to 13K miles. I'd probably drive that in the first year!

    Oh, and this doesn't even factor in the Federal Tax Credit, at which point the PiP would actually be CHEAPER than the standard Prius.

    Now to start planning my strateeegery, on working the dealerships.
     
    lensovet likes this.
  3. Sedition

    Sedition New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    11
    1
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This is very interesting. I was not aware of these taxes. I live in Farfax... er... Fairfax county, so I guess I'm S.O.L. on the Arlington credits. But do I understand correctly? These additional VA taxes are the same for PiP or regular Prius?

    If so, then this issue is somewhat moot when comparing PiP vs. regular Prius.

    I guess the federal tax credit really only offsets the first year of additional local tax credit. That's a slight bummer.
     
  4. Sedition

    Sedition New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    11
    1
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    For what it's worth, the proposed PiP will be replacing a Toyota 4 runner. Although we drive less than the average family, we're still spending $60-$70 a week on gas. This would be a huge upgrade in that light.
     
  5. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,065
    3,479
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    You live real close to me, so below is an estimate of PiP taxes + Hybrid fees for Fairfax. I gave you 65 MPG.

    Yes it is probably similar to non-PiP Prius. I don't really know if the sales tax basis is before or after dealer discounts. Recent posters have complained about excessive VA dealer origination charges or whatever, and some have gone to MD to get out of that. You still have to register car in VA of course. "Good" news Fairfax tax rates are lower than Arlington so we pay about same tax on PiP as Arlington. The tax rates go up slowly every year so my number could be a little low in the end. I do not add in the usual registration fees here becuase I am trying to capture hybrid/non-hybrid penalty.

    VA is non-CARB state which means standard 100000 mile battery warranty. What I am a little confused about is, if you buy in Maryland it would be a CARB-certified car. However, possibly the VA PiP's are CARB certified too. That means nothing to us in VA, but if the car was ever registered in MD, then possibly the CARB warranty helps (150000 mile batt warranty). However, this is very unclear. Most people on this site feel Toyota takes hard line and will not recognize CARB warranty if car is first registered in non-CARB state. I think if you know where to look there should be a sticker somewhere on the car saying if CA-certified version.

    PiP_Fx.jpg
     
  6. g4_power

    g4_power Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    105
    13
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    I
    By the way, there's a reason why Toyota won't give you a life time warranty on the battery. They know it will die soon or later. If the battery dies after the warranty expires, you'll be SOL. I doubt you'll get any tax credit helping you to buy a replacement. This is one reason why I decided not to buy a PiP because I can't save enough to recover my initial cost before the battery warranty expires. However, for someone who could charge the battery many times a day and use up all of the charge, a PiP would be a good fit for them.

    If the Va tax makes the hybrid unattractive, you could take a look at the Matrix or other Japanese models.
     
  7. fortytwok

    fortytwok Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    467
    139
    0
    Location:
    Hopkinton MA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I'd attack that from a different angle :

    his RT is 15 miles, so 1 maybe 2 miles of gas a day. Assuming his weekend errands around town are similar - I mean he should be able to charge more often - we're talking that great scenario where this is a 90% EV driver.
    That 65 MPG may be low by 400MPG !

    also - I know nothing of VA plug-in tax but your spreadsheet shows $65 ?
    That wouldn't kill his gas gains.
    15 miles a day plus a bit more on weekends - call it 6,000 miles - even compared to a Prius3 this looks like $400-500
    annual savings
     
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,065
    3,479
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    ...as of July 1 we have a new $64/yr hybrid fee in VA...it hits all hybrids and plug-ins. As far as economix the OP has to consider I just showed one case. My spreadsheet is really for hybrids not plug-ins because I am trying to quantify state tax "dis-incentive" for hybrids. So I like to compare CAMRY Hybrid vs. CAMRY regular to see VA charges $1500-$2000 more taxes to the Hybrid. I think VA has the biggest tax dis-incentive for Hybrids. Yes the Plug_in PiP *might* help overcome this due to fuel savings and tax rebates. If you compare Maryland ($600 rebate for PiP) to north Virginia ($4000-5000 taxes on a PiP) you can see VA has a fairly strong $hurdle. Does not seem to be slowing Prius sales (yet) as we have oodles on the road here.
     
  9. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    5,084
    1,777
    1
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Doesn't VA produce a fair amount of coal, or is that more WV? If it does produce any coal you would think they would be all about electric vehicles.
     
  10. fortytwok

    fortytwok Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    467
    139
    0
    Location:
    Hopkinton MA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    WV is a huge coal mining state - and possibly even responsible for VA electric so interesting angle here...

    edit - WV is number 2 and others are as you'd expect - PA, KY but surprising (to me anyway)
    The dominant #1 is..... Wyoming !
     
  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,065
    3,479
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Both, but WV is the coal center...WV had $7500 tax rebate on PiP following your logic but they cancelled it on 4/15/2013, not before some here got Pips for ~$16k after tax credits.

    Virginia is pre-occupied with selectively taxing the democrat, affluent, northern part of the state and the repubs would not want a state rebate on green cars which the northern VA folks could use. Same logic the repubs don't want a toll on I95 because this might actually tax some repubs. This is why VA reduced gasoline taxes, and made up the difference with higher sales taxes in North VA only. Virginia's pre-occupation with taxing northern VA residents selectively forces us out of tax solutions other states use.
     
  12. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    5,084
    1,777
    1
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Ya, most trains coming through my state are filled with Wyoming coal.
     
  13. PeppyPrius

    PeppyPrius New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    8
    9
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Hello everyone! This is my first post, but I have been lurking for a bit. We bought our 2013 Prius Plug-In last Wednesday in MD. So far, I am super happy with the car and we got a phenomenal deal on it. I paid $26,241.79, plus freight, doc fee, taxes, tags...$29,350 OTD. This does not include the state and federal credits. If you can get anywhere near this price, you should definitely consider buying the PiP s it is very close to the cost of a regular Prius. You should get about 13 miles out of a charge, so the car will definitely get you to work and part of the way home. In the VA area with all of the stop and go traffic, a hybrid would be the only thing I would drive.
     
    mmmodem likes this.
  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,065
    3,479
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Hi Peppy, well perhaps the original poster would like to know more. Did you get a $600 tax credit from MD? Unfort you missed the bigger MD tax credit in 2012 and eraly 2013.
     
  15. PeppyPrius

    PeppyPrius New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    8
    9
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I will get the $600 credit for MD once I file for it. I will do that once I receive the title as I did the title no# for the application.
     
  16. Aerolite

    Aerolite Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    55
    7
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Couldn't have said it better... that is the reason I went with a certified used Gen 3 Prius over a PiP or a Volt. My commutes are long (from 30-60 miles) and seldom do I have the ability to plug it into an employers bank account ;)
     
  17. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,668
    1,643
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Great job on the price! Yup, after tax credits that's the same cost as a Prius 3. Financially, it makes the most sense to get a PiP
     
    markabele likes this.
  18. pwp1943

    pwp1943 PHEV Afficionado

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    51
    4
    0
    Location:
    Boston
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    What are the MSRP sticker prices on these cars? Mine had a price of 33,119. There were lots of things the dealer (Toyota?) put on here in New England. The thing that brought me into the dealership was the 0% APR for 60 months. I like the idea of usjng Toyota's money for the next 5 years. Dealer incentives plus negotiation got me down to $28.7K before I put on sales tax, etc. All of it financed by Toyota at 0% APR. Plus, I get the Federal tax rebate of $2.5K. What's not to like?
     
  19. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    5,084
    1,777
    1
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Ya, that 0% financing is worth much more money than most people realize.
     
  20. Sedition

    Sedition New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    11
    1
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Well... It seems like the gap between the PiP and GenIII has widened again. Apparently, I did not get all of the dealer incentives for the GenIII. Here's the comparison of what I've been offered. Now, mind you, this is only speaking with a single dealer. I haven't gotten quotes from multiple dealers yet. I imagine, once they start competing with each other, the price may drop a bit more.

    [​IMG]
     
Loading...