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Consumer Reports Pegs Prime EV Range at 28 Miles

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by iplug, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    You missed the point. It's not to appease the current market. Breaking some eggs is not only acceptable, it's encouraged. And that's exactly what we are seeing with Prius Prime.
     
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  2. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    It seems to me the auto industry is in a big state of upheaval. EVs will become very popular in the next few years with major advances in battery tech. How do they plan/design cars for the next two years vs the next 5 or the following 10? The big question for us is when do we jump in and what are we going to buy? The prime this year will be very different from the prime in a couple years. Do we wait or jump now? Or do we wait for the Tesla 3 or something else available now or in a year or two? Or will something else not yet announced be available in a few? If we jump now or in the next couple years, will we again be wanting the latest and greatest when dramatic changes are available.

    Not knowing even the near future in a rapidly changing environment makes decision making almost impossible. So we argue about a missing seat or a few miles range or a couple CF of storage. Overall, these mean nothing right now unless you are buying a car now and will keep it at least 10 years.
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if the prime is going to be very different in a couple of years, why don't they make it now?
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Consumers are still in the discovery process. They don't know what they want yet.

    Toyota will adjust accordingly.
     
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  5. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    What battery types - power density - etc - will be available in 2-3 years at Prime's refresh? At reasonable prices? How to make that car now? Hmm, maybe we shoulds ask Nostradamus...
     
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  6. Mister MMT

    Mister MMT Active Member

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    I agree with Prius Maximus. I usually purchase a recent used car and keep it for > 10 years. Some (me included) may however, worry about the resale price after say 3 to five years, when the embarked technology will be outdated. The comparison to the smart phone or tablet markets comes to my mind. I may therefore be tempted to lease one and keep it only for three years, contrary to what I did so far. Alternatively, I would have to wait at least two years in order for young used Primes to become available, and continue as I did so far... That is probably wiser, but more difficult, because of the "want to have" effect of the PHEV technology I suffer from... (I say suffer by purpose).

    In Germany, Toyota is offering some nice incentives for leasing one and giving it back for a previously fixed price. Before doing that, however, I'll do my calculations, and maybe, cool down a bit...

    Jan
     
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  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    No one knows if consumers will want more capacity added or more cargo area or something else.

    The only way to knows is to try, then analyze the real-world data collected.
     
    #147 john1701a, Aug 15, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
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  8. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    Waiting builds character.

    That's what has made made me what I am today: an old character.
     
    #148 KrPtNk, Aug 15, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i wish battery tech changed that rapidly. it's become obvious that prime battery tech isn't much different than pip, 5 years later. i doubt we'll see much at a mid cycle refresh.
     
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  10. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Don't you have NIMH in your pip? Isn't prime being delivered with lion? That's a major change. I keep seeing all the news about lithium air and other stuff coming, who's to say now what a midcycle refresh may bring? We may get a big change, it may be only a barely usable 5th seat. That's what makes these times so exciting, frustrating and confusing....
     
  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Prius PHV uses lithium. The 7-seat model does too. So, the Prime model will be the third offering.
     
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  12. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Thanks, I didn't realize PiP had lithium.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    My endorsement for lithium is how my Prius PHV was able to play so friendly with the EVs in the local plug-in owners group... Size matters not.
     
    #153 john1701a, Aug 15, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    It depends. It's also an excuse for those not to jump in.

    Take those that were "waiting for hybrids to evolve". Well the time has come but their new excuse will be "waiting for EVs to evolve" while continuing to run a regular ICE car.

    The point is, people are slow to change and they'll use the "technology is always changing" line to delay the process. You can't wait for technology. There is always something better down the line. Using that logic, they should still have a landline since there's always a better mobile phone down the line. Or keep their CRT monitors because there's going to be "some breakthrough" in the future for thin OLED that can be stuck on the wall like a poster.

    At some point, you have to jump in, enjoy the features and benefits that are offered and then when the time comes to replace it, get whatever is available at that time.

    Gen 1 owners who skipped Gen 2 because their cars were still new were rewarded with the Gen 3 when the time came to replace their Gen 1. Likewise now, you've seen a number of Gen 2 owners that are upgrading to the Gen 4 and the difference between the two generations is immense. They took the plunge in the mid 2000s and enjoyed up to 12 years of hybrid motoring.
     
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  15. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Yes but I have a 2014 I dont like all that much and am considering whether I dislike it enough to take the hit and jump now or if I should wait a couple years. One of my posts above explains my dislike. The ride and handling and seat comfort - or lack thereof - are the other issues i have.
     
  16. Mister MMT

    Mister MMT Active Member

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    The difference is that the technology and product cycles are shortening. It took a long time to get from the Prius I THS to the 4 gen Prius THS. It may take much shorter times with the PHEVs and BEVs. That's why I'm considering changing my purchasing policy. I'm not convinced yet that's the right thing to do, though...

    Jan
     
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  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Fair. But you did make the plunge.

    I did the same thing in 2009 when the Gen 3 came out. I decided not to wait for the PiP knowing that it was being studied but I had no idea when it would be put into production. Now with my Gen 3 at 7 years old, I'm in the position to decide whether to wait for the LEAF or go with a Prius Prime. (Model 3 is too far away... and everyone and their dog wants one. My city has enough wealthy people that I can foresee a Model 3 being as common as a 3 Series or C-Class).
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    after waiting 5 years for prime, and seeing double the size battery for double the range, i don't see battery tech or product cycles shortening. they're not like computer chips.
     
  19. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I fully expect Toyota's SiC power electronics will accompany the refreshed Prius Prime. While not a huge newsmaker it has the capability to provide a 15% efficiency boost. With feedback from current Prime owners, there will be more enhancements and while the battery power may not have gained any, the size and packaging might benefit from better and more powerful cells. Who knows even the solar roof might make it over by then. ;)


    Unsupervised!
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you're expecting a lot, since toyota rarely does much at the refresh but a few superficial items. they aren't like gm, constantly pumping new tech out, as soon as it's available.