Consumer Reports: Toyota quality slipping, Ford quality improving

Also dragging Toyota down is the unreliable, inefficient Tundra. One more reason why Toyota should drop those gas guzzlers!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Oct 16 2007, 04:24 PM) [snapback]526513[/snapback]</div>

How is Dodge doing Jack

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ Oct 16 2007, 03:27 PM) [snapback]526515[/snapback]</div>

Well I think this survey was primarily about reliability, not fuel efficiency. It's too bad to see the V6 Camry ratings go down. That being said, if I were buying a new Camry I'd get the XLE but the 4 cylinder engine version anyway as I don't need the huge horsepower and low gas milage of the V6. I think my parents 97 XLE Camry gets around 22mpg or so.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Oct 16 2007, 02:32 PM) [snapback]526521[/snapback]</div>

Right, I simply meant to point out that Toyota's least efficient vehicles are dragging down not only the fleet fuel economy, but also the overall quality rating of the brand.

The Prius, on the other hand, is noted as both the most fuel efficient car Toyota makes AND one of the most reliable cars period.

 

I don't trust anything too seriously from consumer reports. I don't think they are biased by any means but when their test results on even the Prius comes back at under 40 MPG I wonder how hard they must drive these vehicles. When you drive any car like a racecar it lasts like a racecar, obviously a smaller more efficient engine is going to take a beating because it will be working closer to maximum output. There is a reason why they rebuild Jeff Gordon's nascar motor every week.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morpheusx @ Oct 16 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]526558[/snapback]</div>

Consumer Reports got 44 MPG when they tested the Prius, a result which is almost identical to the revised EPA figures.

 

well, the v6s in the camry have always been less reliable than the i4s.

 

in DH's experience in life and in the shop, the i4s last longer. the v6s, especially the early ones, are just not as well designed. our 3s-fe's lasted 250k or more and were still ticking. our es250 had what, 170k on that 2vz-fe and the motor was toast. the 2vz-fe in the camry poured oil when we bought that... needed a lot of work. and now that it's in the es250, we're hearing bottom end noise. we're gonna take care of it as much as possible and run it till it blows, basically. who knows when that will happen, probably not imminent but it will not see 250k. it's not to say that there aren't v6s out there WITH 250k, but it's more rare than the i4 getting there.

DH loves that v6... but even he understands and admits that the v6 is just not as durable as the i4.

with the current generation, yes, the trans is the cause of a lot of complaints. even the i4 coupled trans has gotten a lot of complaints about shift quality. [funny enough, people also complain about how they can't feel the car shift... hm. people seem to just HATE that...]

a few of the new camry engines have dumped cylinders, oil leaks around the case seals, the first 2 or 3 years of the 3.5l v6, they wound up using clamped rubber hoses for oil routing lines for the vvt, and the back bank would start pouring oil out of them... the new filter system they use is alright, but makes DH wanna smack himself on the forehead.

the current gen camry v6, despite being the same as the avalon, doesn't have the same effect. same with the rav4, which also has the same engine in it. a Wth kinda effect, really.

on the sludge issue, that happened to the i4s too.

in DH's opinion, if you're gonna buy a v6 camry, buy an avalon. the camry is best as an i4 car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Oct 16 2007, 03:32 PM) [snapback]526521[/snapback]</div>

Why not get the TCH? You get 99% of the features of the XLE and almost 50% better fuel economy!

 

I've had a subscription to CR since about 1957.

Their auto ratings have to be considered with a very large "grain of salt" They seem to have an effete/snobbish prejudice against American cars. They tend to emphasize American car's shortcomings while not pointing out the same problems in imports.

Recently, in a report, they mentioned that one of the American cars in the report, a Ford product, had disappointing fuel mileage. In the same report a Toyota model received no mention of it's gas mileage. If you looked at the test data, the Ford actually got better mileage than the Toyota.

It's very subtle, but their reports are slanted.

American cars have a history of poor quality and mediocre design. They are improving markedly. The last thing they need is self proclaimed "neutral" publications like CR kicking them when they are down.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Oct 16 2007, 06:08 PM) [snapback]526563[/snapback]</div>

Well maybe something is wrong with mine because I drive mine like a normal person and I think I would have to try to get anything lower then 50 mpg or drive through the mountains or leave the car on all night.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Oct 17 2007, 07:05 AM) [snapback]526772[/snapback]</div>

I agree. You can see that bias best when you look at reviews for joint venture cars. Some examples would be: Toyota Corrola / Geo Prism, Toyota Matrix / Pontiac Vibe, Mazda 626 / Ford Contour. These are vehicles that were designed together and built on the same line by the same people. However, the foreign version will aways rank higher than the domestic even for things such as engine and chassis, even though these are the exact same components. That is why I stopped using consumer reports a long time ago, along with the vague nature of the rankings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Oct 17 2007, 07:05 AM) [snapback]526772[/snapback]</div>

I agree. You can see that bias best when you look at reviews for joint venture cars. Some examples would be: Toyota Corrola / Geo Prism, Toyota Matrix / Pontiac Vibe, Mazda 626 / Ford Contour. These are vehicles that were designed together and built on the same line by the same people. However, the foreign version will aways rank higher than the domestic even for things such as engine and chassis, even though these are the exact same components. That is why I stopped using consumer reports a long time ago, along with the vague nature of the rankings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Oct 17 2007, 02:11 AM) [snapback]526731[/snapback]</div>

the 2az's do get a little rougher as they age but it usually doesn't get too bad. as far as the shifting issue, some of em did have trans problems, sure. another thing interpreted as a trans issue was a trans mount that went bad that could cause a rough shift but only at torque application, which would lead to most prominent effects at low gear changes.

as far as performance, the 2az is a good performer. he does have his concerns as far as the hycam- like how high they upped the compression because he's not sure how much more that engine could take. that motor's under enough stress already- it was real easy to overheat and warp the heads. he's not real concerned about the long term durability of the 2az in general, but it has been modified for the hycam. so he's not sure whether these concerns have been accounted for in the modified design and he's just spouting off about nothing...