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Cooling a Gen II pack while charging?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Houston Hybrids, Mar 28, 2014.

  1. Houston Hybrids

    Houston Hybrids Junior Member

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    Howdy,

    I am more of a lurker on Prius Chat than a talker, but I have really enjoyed following the threads particularly concerning rebuilding NiMh batteries. I am a rebuilder myself and things are going well, but I am concerned about overheating due to charging conditions. I use the Thunder T6 multi and my parameters are pretty much identical to those that have posted on Prius Chat. What I am wondering is if anyone has made a contraption that will simulate the Prius' fan and cool the battery while it is charging? I have temperature cut offs set, but I am still seeing some weird drops in discharge numbers after a couple of cycles in certain batteries. I am guessing that they are overheating, but they shouldn't do this after only two cycles... right?
    Most of my customers are in Houston and the heat has wreaked havoc on some of these batteries, especially the ones that park their car in the sun all day. I am betting that if I can keep the cells cooler while charging, I can get higher discharge numbers and give my customers a better product... Any thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Jessica
     
  2. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    A portable AC unit blowing cold air at module clamped by aluminium electrical style heat sinks would keep the nice and cool. Several modules clamped together with aluminium plates between them "larger than the modules" with cold air blowing on them would allow for charging more than one module at a time.

    John (Britprius)
     
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  3. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    I would just pick up a small vent fan and put it in the hatch.

    JeffD
     
  4. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Are you concerned about the cells while you have them on the bench in your shop, or later after they are in a car?
     
  5. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    It would be better to remove the pack and work on it where you can maintain an air conditioned environment (use forced air over the packs while charging, not too hard to rig something up on the bench). It also helps to lower the charge current to keep heat down especially if you will be exercising them above 7000mAh. Finally make sure to charge no more than every other cell at a time beacuse the ones nearby will act as heat sinks to dissipate any built up heat relatively quickly.
     
  6. Houston Hybrids

    Houston Hybrids Junior Member

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    Right now I charge the odd numbered cells at one time, then charge the evens afterwards while they are on my bench (in a climate controlled shop). I know that it'd be best to keep them cool by only charging a few cells at time, but my setup consists of MANY batteries each using four chargers. I think it'd take me forever to disassemble each pack and section out the modules into groups, but that's a fantastic idea none the less. I would really like to force air through the pack while it is assembled, just wondering if anyone has tried it with success? Does anyone know what could account for my drop in discharge rates? Here is an example:

    4250, 5660, 5902, 5730. This happens randomly throughout some packs and I can't seem to put my finger on why. Should I lower from 7500 mAh to 7000mAh? Could it be the connections (or my mediocre soldering abilities)?

    THANKS :)

    Jessica
     
  7. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Jessica,
    Welcome to PC.

    Concerning recharging lithium batteries on the bench and elevated temps is a major concern of mine.

    While L don't have Li bats in my current Prius, I do run Li bats on my E Bike. During charge up, I put a refreezabe blue ice pack on the charger and Li packs. No problem with overheating. On the Prius, I make sure the bat vent, ducting, & fan are clean. I installed a replaceable piece of filter paper behind the bat vent. In warmer weather , I run the AC constantly. This does help the bat pack keep cool.

    DBCassidy
     
  8. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    Jessica, it sounds like youre doing it right (charging every other module) but I would focus on two things to help your situation. First I would try to build a bench setup to duct an air conditioner through the prius battery while you are cycling them (no need to remove them from the HV pack). Second I would try experimenting by lowering the capacity to 7000 mAh and lower the charge current to 2A then slowly raise the capacity by 100 mAh each cycle until you reach 7500 mAh. This should allow you to hone your process for best results (if capacity drops you will have gone beyond optimal capacity for cycling). Please post your findings so we may all benefit later too.
     
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  9. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Wouldn't using the Prius fan itself work for this purpose? Seems like it would, but I am still learning about all the cool charge/discharge toys available for the Prius ;-)
     
  10. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    Jeff I think you showed in the grid charging thread it´s pretty easy to set something up.

    Grid Charge HV Battery to Balance? | PriusChat

    If someone was going to do commercial rebuilding of packs I would probably adapt the system from the prius into some type of bench jig. Then you would want to help the heat transfer process by running cooled air (air conditioning) especially if this was being done in a warm climate. If central air conditioning was available it would be fairly easy to branch off a section and run the insulated duct through the bench jig. Otherwise you could certainly design something using a portable air conditioner but it would be less efficient than using central air.
     
  11. Houston Hybrids

    Houston Hybrids Junior Member

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    Thanks guys! I am ordering a couple of portable AC's and I am experimenting on lowering to 4.0A on a one pack and 3.0A on another while decreasing my capacity to 7000mAh. Seems like a delicate balance... I am hoping that lowering the A doesn't slow my charge time down too much.

    Now onto the other ten million problems I encounter with these batteries on a daily basis , lol!:rolleyes:

    Jessica