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Featured Corvette to Launch as a Brand in 2025 with a Four-Door and an SUV

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Trollbait, Nov 30, 2022.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Ah, so they (GM) are following Ford's Mustang philosophy .... recycle an older name but with an entirely different vehicle type.
    In that case comma I'm looking forward to the next iteration of the Chevy nomad .... a wagon, only higher off the ground with higher ceiling.
    ;)
    .
     
  3. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Thank you for the article - very interesting.

    It seems for performance vehicles EV power is making more and more sense with its instant response and powerful initial torque.

    Who would of thought muscle cars enthusiasts would be talking about Kw (Kilowatts) rather than HP (Horsepower) ?
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They have been in production and available before this move. When was the last time the US had a Crown?:p

    The Corvette has been separate from Chevy in the public conscious for years now. The S-10 SS from the '90s was an attempt at a Chevy performance halo car, because people had stopped linking Corvette with Chevy. GM is just making the split official.

    A hybrid and BEV Corvette were already confirmed. The four door and crossover is news. The Mustang could be inspiration, but Porsche had success with this path first.
     
  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I think it's more a factor of pricing because its way more profitable to build a small number of luxury EVs that costs more than $100K than it is to build a large number of economy EVs that cost less than $40K. The latter being way more essential to addressing climate change than the former.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    To get the latter requires a parts supply base that can support the production of the large numbers. Since there is a delay between investing in that supply base and it producing, might has well make the most profit on making the former.

    Anyway, GM's investment into EVs and batteries isn't as lacking as some others. The Bolts should be in production for another 3 years at least, and the Equinox EV coming out for 2024 has a target starting price of around $30k. It isn't like GM lacks an affordable EV in their line up; they actually started there. The issue for building large numbers goes back to current parts supply levels.

    https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2021/06/16/gm-battery-plants/5293394001/
    GM Plans Biggest Manufacturing Investment Ever In Its Home State For EV, Battery Production
    General Motors strikes a deal to source lithium in the US for its electric car batteries - The Verge
    https://electrek.co/2022/09/22/gm-investing-in-lithion-recycling-to-support-ev-battery-recycling/
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Has GM made any profits with the Bolt?

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    #8 hill, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
  9. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Brand dilution? They can sell thousands more Corvettes than they make at $65k (I dare you to find one) to $170k (I dare you to find one) and I suppose at that price are making money.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    "And battery costs have come down, but not as fast as GM would have liked. A 2016 report from Bloomberg said that GM was losing between $8,000 and $9,000 per Bolt sold. A 2017 teardown by UBS found that the number was probably closer to $4,000 or $5,000, but either way, GM was losing money on each Bolt that left the dealer’s lot."

    Those reports are based on the gen1. The Bloomberg one is behind a subscription wall. It could very well be a report on a study by UBS or Munro. The UBS report isn't saying what that article says. The $4k to $5k figure is how much lower the teardown down cost findings were compared to an earlier estimate they made.

    https://neo.ubs.com/shared/d1mFW2YvNRvHXA/ (a pdf)
    "On our analysis, the total direct production costs of the "naked" Bolt add up to
    $28.7k, as the following analysis shows. This implies a positive contribution (selling
    price less cash manufacturing costs) of $3.2k per vehicle sold. The contribution
    represents 10% of the vehicle price (excl. dealer mark-up). Hence, GM has an
    incentive to sell more vehicles. At EBIT level, however, including proportionate
    overhead costs and D&A, GM likely incurs a loss of $7.4k per vehicle sold."
    https://neo.ubs.com/shared/d1mFW2YvNRvHXA/#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A320%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22XYZ%22%7D%2C43%2C770%2C0%5D (subsection where the quote is from)

    The gen1 Bolt was priced higher than it cost to make. It was overhead and other factors that incurred the loss(the technical terms are finance ones for those wanting to look deeper). In the intro of the report, UBS hints that those costs could have dropped with higher production. They also had projections for the gen2, "On a 2025 view, the "next-gen" Bolt's total costs (down to EBIT level) should
    decrease by $13.2k." Of course, they couldn't factor in recent history, but the past prediction was a $7k loss on the Bolt going to a $6k profit. IIRC, statements from Toyota were that the Prius was profitable until the midcycle of the gen2.

    As for GM admitting losing money on the Bolt, that all seems to be based upon this, "During a discussion with industry analysts as part of the company’s reporting of its latest quarterly financial results, Mary Barra said that it doesn’t expect its all-electric models to start turning a profit before the start of the next decade, at the earliest.

    "We've talked about the fact that with our next generation of development, we want to make sure we have obtainable, profitable, desirable, and with the appropriate range."

    - Mary Barra" - GM's Barra admits the Chevrolet Bolt is not profitable | Car News | Auto123

    The Bolt was never named. GM has more than one plug in, including models not available in the US. They've also invested a lot of cash into Ultium and the new BEV platforms. Accounting will want that paid off before counting revenue from the car sales and profit.

    PS: didn't have a tear down, but the UBS report also analyzes the Model 3.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Yet our local dealer tried to 'auction' off newly arrived Gen 2 Prius. It is why we skipped that model along with having mastered and studied the Gen 1. The Prius became profitable with the Gen 2 within one or two years.

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Yes Prius did turn profit years (½ way) through its 2nd gen. EV's tho - especially while trying to switch to 100% of their products take substantially more manufacturing deployment - when the goal is to go 100% EV. Manufacturers have to reinvent much of the design of the car building infrastructure - and have massive battery inventory requirements as well. Toyota was keeping over 99% of its existing build philosophy up and running and profitable while making the Prius as a niche market.
    Similarly - profits - for several YEARS - languished for Tesla because they poured so much cash into not only vehicle R&D, but infrastructure for charging as well as building factories and service centers.
    Legacy manufacturers depend a lot on existing build tech to turn profit & on their number crunchers as to whether they should invest money. Tesla on the other hand had way more luck & faith in what might be down the road - than cash to burn.
    GM / Corvette electric will have to be a real cash burner as Tesla was. Their whole new fleet is going to be a cash burning extravaganza.
    .
     
    #12 hill, Dec 1, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota was operating the same way with EVs, but have now assembled a crisis management group to salvage what they can in face of a market shifting faster than they wished.

    GM has already started the cash burning. The EV Vette isn't their Model S though. The Hummer EV, Lyriq, Blazer EV, Silverado/Sierra EV, and maybe the Equinox EV out before it. Then the 4 door and crossover Corvette models will follow.