Cost of Electric vs Cost of Gas - where is the break even point

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by hackenfort, May 18, 2017.

  1. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Actually coal is not worse than oil considering the average car. It is, however, much worse than gas used by a Prius.
     
  2. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    With the price of gas going up due to the floods, that break point should be moving a lot closer.
     
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  3. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    It jumped another dime here today. I almost want to buy gas now so I can realize an even bigger savings compared to a gasser. LOL!! But I think I still have at least another 400 miles left on this tank. :ROFLMAO:
     
  4. GeoTim

    GeoTim New Member

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    The carbon tax, which is a fee imposed on the burning of carbon-based fuels, may be getting a push in the near future. I use carbon-based fuels for the gas in my car, boiler heat in my home, electricity from the natural gas powered electric company, and to bring food on trucks, planes, and ships (not much can be grown locally in Alaska) so I expect to pay an ever increasing fee unless I can reduce consumption of carbon-based fuel energy. Hurricanes, like Harvey, are becoming more intense due to warmer sea and air temperatures caused by the increased CO2 from burning carbon fuels. There are people in the US, mostly along coastlines, who may or may not consume carbon-based fuels but are paying a heavy price (direct damage or increased insurance premiums) from the effects of their burning. The carbon tax funds would be used to help those impacted by such storms.
     
  5. Simtronic

    Simtronic Active Member

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    For me it is a no brainer, We pay around $5.40 a gallon here $0.22 KWH electric and I have solar with a storage battery so can charge up on electrons from the sun and fill up after the sun has gone down :)
     
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  6. KCobby

    KCobby Member

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    It's hard to look at ANY car without having some environmental impact. Want to lower your carbon footprint a lot? Ride a bike. :D

    But you can also look at buying a used car as many of us do here. Yes, the car was still manufactured, but keeping cars on the road as long as you can is one good way to reduce (recycle, reuse...)

    Another option would be to look at biofuels, if you were really into it. Convert an old diesel to run on french fry oil. You're avoiding a lot of bad with that option.

    Last thing - in my opinion (and many others) the reduction of CO2 in the environment is the most pressing need currently. Do whatever you can do help with that and hopefully we can mitigate the other factors in time.

    Good luck!(y)
     
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  7. Simtronic

    Simtronic Active Member

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    I agree with what you say about carbon footprint but diesels although better relatively for CO2 they are dreadful for Nitrous Oxides and particulates I don't want to poison my kids either
     
  8. j12piprius

    j12piprius Junior Member

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    PGE states their rate is $.1078 per kwh on my bill. However, dividing the last bill of $15.15 by 49 kilowatt hours shows their actual rate was $.3092 per kwh, which comes out to $.3092 x 33.7 = $10.42 per mpge.

    Stating their rate is $.1078 per kwh is greatly misleading.
     
  9. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Folks, everyone here loves graphs, and this same question seems to get asked once a month.

    just make a line along a graph plotting $/gallon VRS Pennies / kwhr at the EPA ratings then put as a sticky at the top of this forum so anyone who asks this can see what the break even point is on gas at any price.
     
  10. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    They get around that by saying their rate is such and such, and then add on all sorts of taxes and fuel surcharges, plus a fee for the privilege of being connected to their grid and buying power from them.
     
  11. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Active Member

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    Deleted because put in wrong category.
     
    #51 Isaac Zachary, May 30, 2018
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  12. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    Rates are not to be confused with cost. There are probably a few "fees" and "taxes" in the total. Post a copy of your bill with your
    That probably is the "rate." But there are "fees" and "charges" and "taxes," as well. :)
     
  13. Pluggo

    Pluggo Senior Member

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    Especially since your electric usage is so low, it’s important to subtract any fixed charges before you calculate your cost per KWH. My utility begins each bill with an $8.45 “Customer Charge” just for the privilege of being their customer. That’s the amount I’d still pay if I used nothing. Other than that, their “distribution charge” ($.06+ per KWH ) pretty much doubles the generating cost that my independent supplier charges.
     
    #53 Pluggo, May 31, 2018
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
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  14. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Exactly! Flat costs shouldn’t be included, unless you wouldn’t be connected to the grid without a plug-in vehicle.

    In our case, our delivery charges and such are also ‘zero’d out’ with our solar production.
     
  15. j12piprius

    j12piprius Junior Member

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    The important thing is to see, that the amount they charge me is the cost.
    You can "subtract" all you want, but you still have to pay them the total cost for the kilowatts.

    This is basic math: the total cost, divided by the kilowatts used, equals the price per kilowatt.

    Compared to gasoline, the price "without charges" would be 50 cents per gallon but that's not what you pay.
     
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    When fixed per-month charges are involved, that leads to false conclusions. Lowering your usage by 1 kWh doesn't produce the indicated savings. Raising your usage by 1 kWh doesn't raise the cost by that much.

    If you are honestly considering completely cutting the cord and disconnecting from the grid entirely, then you can include the fixed costs into your per-kwh cost figure. But otherwise, if you are going to remain connected for any other purpose whatsoever, then the fixed account costs are simply not part of any EV plug-in decision. And your statement "actual rate was $.3092 per kwh" becomes greatly misleading.
     
  17. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    0D781C34-86BD-4B5E-B1A5-FBC4CF771B36.png

    Now sticky this so no one asks this question again
     
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  18. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Yeah Right and I suppose you roll your mortgage and property tax into the cars charging cost.


    Obviously that’s not what it costs you to charge the car
    basic math and a thing called opportunity cost you learn about in 9th grade would tell you that.

    I pay (many months) over a dollar a KWHR by your logic, because I use very little electricity and my fixed utilities fees add up to $48 dollars a month.

    My car has absolutely nothing to do with the $48 I pay for the privilege of getting a bill every month.

    However, my fixed KWHR rate is 9.8 cents, this means that if I charge my car at home I only pay about $10 a month more than if I didn’t and obviously charging the car reduces the amount per KWHR I pay overall using your very faulty math.

    So it really makes no sense including “capital” costs in your charging cost.
    So...

    While your at it claim the TCO + Mortgage + Property tax should also be rolled into the charging cost because obviously you couldn’t charge without a home and it’s costs.
    It’s basic math right?
     
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  19. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    There are no flat costs at the gas station.
     
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  20. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    The gas station has millions of dollars of flat costs.

    For a long time my electric had no flat costs as it was rolled into my rent.
    Does that make it free?

    Would you stop paying for your electric hookup if you didn’t have an EV?


    But again all irrelevant to the cost of charging the car.
     
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