Cost of electricity from "renewable sources"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(felton @ Mar 29 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]231772[/snapback]</div>

You nailed it here. For Joe Six-pack, if it doesn't save him money TODAY, then it isn't worth considering. There is no value in "doing the right thing" or protecting the environment. The only value worth considering is "what's in it for me?" At least that's how it looks from the top of MY ivory tower (just trying to head some comments off at the pass)

 

My guess is that they lack the capacity and probably every kWh of wind energy produced in TX is bespoke already. You guys have just of 2 GW of capacity installed, I believe. That number is steadily increasing. TX is a hot bed for wind development. My guess is that the cost, in this case, is supply (or the lack thereof) driven. Here in CO there's a wait list for the windsource program. Xcel Energy is currently in the process of trippeling the wind capacity in the state to 775 MW. Even then I think there will be a waiting list. This year wind power has actually been cheaper than conventional power because of the shortages of NG. Wind is booming in this country. It's really great to see the industry come of age.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=44451

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Mar 29 2006, 06:18 PM) [snapback]231869[/snapback]</div>

Dude, tripp, you use that spelling all the time?
watch out standing up too fast, your ego might knock someone over ...

That said, I do think that even without the government subsidies that other power supplies have (like, nuclear, or gasoline), wind and solar power are becoming competetive. Once they become cheaper singificantly, the world is in for a big change... hopefully for the better.

 

No kidding! As much wind as there is here, there is tons of electricity that could be made!

About six months ago, Lubbock put a windmill in at the windmill museum. I haven't heard much about it since then, but it was supposed to provided enough energy to power the museum and any excess would be sold back to the electric company.

 

initial costs for wind in some areas was estimated at between 21 to 45 cpkw. but that was over the first 10 years. after that, the cost drops to less than half of that and continues to drop over the LT of the generator as there is little maintenance costs involved.

sure the initial investment is high, but the return can far outweigh the cost and easily overcome the initial investment. it only takes time and a bundle of cash at first. that is where low interest government loans should be

 

The other important aspect of most renewables is that the price of energy is stable. That's why so many companies are buying into the wind programs and buying green tags and the like. It makes their cost forcasting a LOT easier.

Raj, you're killing me. I knew I should have looked it up. I think if we can get the cost of solar under $1/Watt the world is in for a huge change. The way that everyone thinks about and uses energy will change radically, I think. The average Joe will have ownership of energy and that will change the way it's (energy) abused.

Oh, the other really important thing about wind is that it uses VERY little water per kWh generated. Coal and nuclear both use large amounts of water. In fact, 48% of water usage in the US is for power generation. That includes agriculture!

 

Over here in the UK, one of these costs about £1,000.



http://www.renewabledevices.com/swift/images.htm

Peak at 1.5kW, but typically give a third of rated power over a day on average (so 12 kWh per day).

Over the 20 year lifetime of the device, that would work out to a cost of about 1.8 cents per kWh.

The big 8 MW offshore turbines soon to come into service are set to be around that level too.

 

The windmills are a cool concept, put one up at your hame and not have to rely on the power copmany.

Below is a write up on the price increase here in fla.

The Florida Public Service Commission, the regulatory authority that oversees costs customers pay for electricity, today approved Florida Power & Light Company’s request for a fuel cost adjustment on customer bills beginning in 2006.

The adjustment reflects the extraordinary expenses for fuel used to generate electricity during a period of skyrocketing global energy costs compounded by the impact of major hurricanes this summer on natural gas and oil production and distribution in the Gulf of Mexico.

The adjustment will result in an increase of $16.99 – or 19 percent – on a typical 1,000 kilowatt-hour monthly residential electric bill. That bill will increase from the current $91.62 to $108.61. Commercial and industrial customer bills will increase from 30 percent to 41 percent since fuel makes up a larger portion of their bills. The increase will be reflected in customer’s bills beginning Jan. 1, 2006.

FPL’s total fuel costs to be recovered in 2006 will exceed $6.5 billion dollars. The total fuel adjustment is composed of the projection for fuel costs in 2006 and fuel costs for the first nine months of 2005 that were not collected through the 2005 adjustment.

“Just as you go to a gas station to fill your vehicle, FPL buys fuel from fuel providers to power our power plants and just like you are paying higher prices, we are paying higher prices for the fuels we use to generate electricity on your behalf,†said Armando Olivera, FPL president. “We are committed to seeking ways to produce electricity at the lowest possible cost for our customers.â€

FPL makes no profit on fuel used to generate electricity. FPL buys only the fuel required to serve customers and meet their electricity consumption needs -- a 30 percent increase in consumption per household since 1985. Because fuel prices are a direct pass through, FPL customers will never pay a penny over what the company pays to cover its fuel costs. And, if fuel prices should once again recede, the fuel price portion of the electric bill – which will be more than half of a customer’s bill in 2006 – would be reduced.

FPL has taken a number of actions to mitigate the fuel price volatility on customer bills:

While FPL cannot control factors driving world fuel prices, the company has taken a number of aggressive actions to mitigate the volatility of these extraordinary fuel costs and their impact on customers. Without these efforts, fuel prices would be even higher.

FPL is a firm believer in the value of fuel diversity to help stabilize fuel costs as well as to maintain and improve overall system reliability. FPL’s generation mix includes nuclear (21 percent), coal (6 percent), purchased power (18 percent), oil (18 percent) and natural gas (37 percent).
FPL makes maximum use of its nuclear generating units to provide as much low cost power from these non-oil and gas-fired units as possible.
While coal prices have been increasing as well, coal prices are far less than oil and natural gas and subsequently FPL has been maximizing its use of the limited coal-fired generation that it owns and increasing coal-fired power purchases whenever possible.
By taking advantage of the dual-fuel capabilities of a number of its generating units – that is, a number of plants can burn either oil or natural gas or a combination of both – FPL can take advantage of whichever of these fuel sources is least costly at any particular time.
FPL also employs a strategy called fuel hedging -- supported by the PSC -- as a method of providing some level of protection against volatility in fuel prices. Through its hedging strategy started in 2002, FPL will have saved its customers more than a half billion dollars by end of 2005. The company expects that its hedging activities will provide significantly greater savings to customers in 2006.
FPL’s non-nuclear power plant fleet is 12 percent more efficient than just five years ago because FPL has spent more than $2.3 billion to re-power older, less efficient generating units and build new, state-of-the-art natural gas-fired units in order to improve fuel efficiency – they now take less fuel to produce the same amount of electricity.
Since 1999, FPL has been able to reduce base rates by 15 percent or approximately $4 billion. With the company’s latest rate agreement announced in August, the benefits of those earlier rate reduction agreements have been extended through 2009. These agreements and the savings and refunds they provide have helped to offset somewhat the impact of the rising fuel costs on customers during this period of skyrocketing fuel price increases.

Wise use of energy encouraged

The wise use of energy – and the benefits it can have on helping hold down monthly electricity bills – is more important than ever. FPL provides a number of services to help customers manage energy use. Key among them are on-line home energy surveys to identify appliance inefficiencies, rebates for energy efficiency upgrades and tips for low cost and no-cost ways to reduce the amount of electricity used at home and at work.

Because air conditioning alone can amount to more than half of our total energy consumption in the summer months, FPL offers customers an incentive to install high-efficiency heating and cooling systems for homes, and incentives also are offered for homes to increase home ceiling insulation.

The company offers a monthly incentive for those customers who voluntarily choose to participate in a program that allows FPL to periodically cycle-off appliances such as pool pumps and water heaters for short periods during times of system-wide peak energy use. The program is called On Call®. Additionally, to prevent major fluctuations in the electric bill, the FPL Budget Billing ® program evens out energy costs so customers pay about the same each month.

Florida Power & Light Company is the principal subsidiary of FPL Group, Inc. (NYSE: FPL), nationally known as a high quality, efficient and customer -driven organization focused on energy-related products and services. With annual revenues of more than $10 billion and a growing presence in 26 states, FPL Group is widely recognized as one of the country’s premier power companies. Florida Power & Light Company serves 4.3 million customer accounts in Florida . FPL Energy, LLC, FPL Group’s wholesale electricity generating subsidiary, is a leader in producing electricity from clean and renewable fuels. Additional information is available on the Internet at www.FPL.com, www.FPLGroup.com and www.FPLEnergy.com.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Mar 29 2006, 05:18 PM) [snapback]231869[/snapback]</div>

"As far as the bats are concerned, I might speculate that the demise of bats that can't evade a 16rpm turbine may only improve the gene pool?"

I love that comment from one of the readers.

Is wind going to kill solar?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(felton @ Mar 30 2006, 10:50 AM) [snapback]232308[/snapback]</div>

No doubt! Not to mention walking with you eyes squinted as much as possible and your mouth clamped shut to avoid as much of the blowing dust as possible. :blink:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 30 2006, 08:00 PM) [snapback]232705[/snapback]</div>

Definitely not. They're actually remarkably complementary. We just need to get the cost of solar down. I think that we're about a decade away from really cheap solar. That's going to revolutionize the way that people think about energy and the way that we produce it.