Critical Thinking 201.....

Loving the headlines "vow to shut down the Border"
Ie
administer existing laws?
LOL
They said the border is secure for months & months now. Is he lying now? then? Or both.
.

 

Living in North Alabama, I'm not seeing news reports of local, illegal immigrant problems. What is the problem?

The reason I ask is I see a lot of Hispanic people:

• Meat packing plants
• Roofing
• Farm harvesters
• Road work
• Construction work
• Any dirty, hot/cold, low-pay, jobs

I'm not seeing crime news in North Alabama about Hispanic criminals. Heck, even the drug busts are not Hispanics.

Bob Wilson

 

Really?
Here's some coffee to smell for when folks wake up;
NYPD News: Times Square attack injures 2 police officers – NBC New York
Same activity in Nashville as well.
Not too dissimilar from when all of Castro's Cuban prisons, & mental institutions were emptied out - to take advantage of quick & easy usa immigration. IIRC Carter was president then? idk
Except of course THIS time - it is times 10,000
What 7 statistics tell us about immigration and crime | CNN
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I'm still not seeing the Hispanic crime-wave other than getting into the USA. We have bigger problems with:

• mass shootings - the Mom of her kid killer is in court is the latest.
• vehicle accidents - the technology to inhibit is available but not applied.
• trojan horse and other Internet scams - like the bogus charges when I tried to pay a bill online.
• family crisis and crimes - we have a boat load locally from shootings, stabbings, to hospitalizations.

In both quantity and quality, the Hispanics appear to bring more than they take. Are there any statistics of non-immigration crimes so we can get away from 'red herrings'?

Bob Wilson

 

Just edited above post adding article from CNN statistics
What 7 statistics tell us about immigration and crime | CNN
of course all those stats are from a few years ago so you can pretty much compound them a few times
.

 

In my region, crime by immigrants appears very low, though crime against them isn't that low. E.g. the recent immigrant Muslim Somali immigrant (arrived a decade ago) rideshare driver murdered by an alcoholic American.

The criminal suspects apprehended here seem overwhelming native born Americans.

That article is over 5 years old. Got something fresher? Though I do thank you for these portions of it [emphasis added]:

"But many researchers argue that immigrants are, in fact, less likely to commit crimes."

and

"“The criminal conviction and arrest rates for immigrants were well below those of native-born Americans,” Cato’s Alex Nowrasteh wrote."

According to the libertarian think tank’s analysis, the rate per 100,000 residents in each subpopulation was 899 for undocumented immigrants, 611 for legal immigrants and 1,797 for native-born Americans.

and

"25
The number of years of crime and immigration data researchers looked at in a recent study published in the journal Criminology. “Increases in the undocumented immigrant population within states are associated with significant decreases in the prevalence of violence,” authors Michael Light and Ty Miller wrote. An analysis of data from 1990-2014, they said, suggests “undocumented immigration over this period is generally associated with decreasing violent crime.”

 

Thanks as that article led to a 2018 article: https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/criminal-immigrants-texas-illegal-immigrant#background

The vast majority of research finds that immigrants do not increase local crime rates and that they are less likely to cause crime and less likely to be incarcerated than their native‐born peers.3 There is less research on illegal immigrant criminality, but what research there is shows that illegal immigrants have lower incarceration rates nationwide and in the state of Texas relative to native‐born Americans, although they have the same rates of re‐arrest in Los Angeles County.4 Consistent with those findings, immigration enforcement programs targeting illegal immigrant criminals have no effect on local crime rates, which indicates that they are about as crime prone as other residents.5​

This matches my casual impression and the Alabama experiment:

Alabama farmers say a law that cracks down on illegal immigration took their workforce.​

If you want to block unionization, hire illegal immigrants. Meanwhile:

It is a perfect issue for sociopaths with no empathy:
More major US immigration raids likely despite outcry – report | US immigration | The Guardian

More major raids aimed at picking up undocumented immigrants are likely soon despite a flood of outrage at a huge operation last week that saw more than 600 Latino workers detained at poultry plants in Mississippi.

. . . White House has ordered US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agents to identify more targets across the country, according to a report by CNN. The network said the raids would be specifically aimed at workplaces, just like those in Mississippi.

The order also comes days after the man accused of killing 22 people in El Paso, Texas, confessed he was targeting “Mexicans” and allegedly posted an online manifesto just before the shooting that contained anti-immigration language . . .

According to Ice figures obtained by the Washington Post, there has been a 300% increase in investigations between the 2017 and 2018, while the number of managers arrested has doubled.

But a database maintained by Duke University and the University of Virginia found that just five companies have been prosecuted . . . , compared to 88 prosecutions during the [prior rjw] administration between 2009 and 2016.

A separate study by Syracuse University found that no companies were prosecuted for knowingly hiring undocumented workers between April 2018 and March 2019.​

Bob Wilson

 

Again, thanks for linking an article containing so many points refuting the assertions of immigrants, legal or illegal, being more criminal than native born Americans.

NPR just had a piece about plummeting violent crime rates. While murder rates rose in 2023 in DC, Memphis, and Seattle, those cities were outliers, rates elsewhere appear to have dropped sharply in 2023, especially the later half, though the downturn was apparent in 2022 also. Not sure if it was as sharp as the 2020-2021 increase. Preliminary figures only, the FBI doesn't usually have final figures until near the end of the following year.

 

With birth rates below the natural replacement rate since the 1970s, immigrants are what keep the population growing, providing workers to pay for Social Security for those of us who have retired, and enabling better economic growth. From the U.S. Census Bureau, three months ago:

"The low-immigration scenario is projected to peak at around 346 million in 2043 and decline thereafter, dropping to 319 million in 2100. Though largely illustrative, the zero-immigration scenario projects that population declines would start in 2024 in the complete absence of foreign-born immigration."

 

A bunch of them do pay payroll and income withholding taxes, so that their employer's books can appear legitimate, at least at first glance.

Because those payments are attached to fake or 'borrowed' Social Security numbers, these illegals cannot collect the SSA and Medicare benefits or get income tax refunds. Those payments end up as surplus unclaimed monies that end up benefiting the rest of us.

 

idk how many do or don't - but might not the offset be, that a good chunk of illegal's income goes back to the family & their native country - benefiting no others in the usa?
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Most of the large employers I've heard about, must do this to keep the tax compliance folks off their backs. Having many 'employees' with no tax withholding and no payroll taxes == no "plausible deniability" about the legal status of those employees. Large employers don't get away with under-the-table payrolls the way small employers can.

The illegals need food and housing and transportation while here too. Numerous illegals also have their families here. Some of those families, kids and even spouses, are legals.

The employers are also saving a bunch of money by not having to pay the going wage rate needed to hire legal Americans. That savings stays in the U.S.

 

This seems like such an easy issue to solve for our country.

1.Most agree that controlled legal immigration is a positive for our country.
2. Most agree that some sort of physical border to control and organize immigration into our country is a good thing.
3. Most agree a simple expedited path to citizenship is a good thing.
4. Most agree that what is currently going on at the border is uncontrolled, dangerous and a tragedy to the immigrants and to our country.
5. Most agree uncontrolled immigration to our country is unsustainable.
6. Most would agree that it is irresponsible to not craft and implement immigration legislation to correct this problem immediately.
7. Enforce current laws to end the nightmare and human tragedy our Southwestern states are now facing and dealing with daily, until the changes in legislation can be implemented.

I truly think that a small committee of people selected from this thread could sit down and in one week, cooperate and produce a workable beginning immigration plan that could be implemented and built upon.

What in the world is wrong with the people currently in Washington!

 

Solutions don't get you famous. Complaining about continued problems does.

Without that fame, you don't get the speaking fees, the board seats, the merchandise sales or campaign contributions.

The people in the thread are nice enough but that's mostly down to circumstance.

The first time a dairy association offers your family member a no-show job in exchange for keeping the status quo, the corruption begins anew.