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Dark Days for Energy Efficiency

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by DaveinOlyWA, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...gn_id=rss_daily

    wow talk about mixed messages. funding is slashed because we deem it a waste of money, or we simply dont have the funds. i strongly question the cutting of research that is close to achieving what most would surely consider a worthwhile goal.

    not gonna make this a political post about the cost of war, but... </span>
     
  2. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    no point in making it political. some think w walks on water and some think the opposite and never the twain shall meet
     
  3. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Currently approximately 32% of Americans. [source]

    Currently almost twice as many.
    Unless you're saying that some people think that water walks on Bush, which I doubt because that's just silly.
     
  4. RonH

    RonH Member

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    "one big technical hurdle", huh? Before you jump on the bash bush bandwagon. Ask yourself:
    - if it's so close why doesn't industry just finish it off? if its a cinch to save bundles seems like a good bet for a consortium.
    - what's the ROI of this program? one long perpetual motion machine after another? Believe it that there are lots of programs with feel-good names that don't do squat. No child left behind?
     
  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ Apr 27 2006, 01:41 AM) [snapback]245991[/snapback]</div>
    Well, first of all, No Child Left Behind was/is a Bush initiative. So to limit "Bush bashing" but criticize NCLB seems odd.

    Secondly, I work in the Educational Services department of a building controls company. Last year I wrote two classes addressing Energy Management and Effective Energy Usage. You can take my word for it or I can flood you with documents indicating that there are many companies implementing the energy efficiency techniques proposed and propelled by LEED, ASHRAE, Energy Star, and the myriad other energy consortiums. Those who implement the strategies see pay-back periods considerably shorter than they expected and profits driven by savings (unrealized expenses) exceeding their expectations. Unfortunately, the vast majority of our state-owned university customers, as well as schools and civil institutions are in no position to take advantage of the technology that exists.

    But we all know that ROI involves investment. Not all companies are in the position to drop tens of thousands of dollars to buy the equipment needed plus the labor required to install it. If you personify those companies, it would go like this: "I know a guy who doesn't have much money. He would be able to save money if he bought a new car but he can't afford the new car so he continues to not have any money." If even half of the cost of implementing energy efficiency strategies were subsidized or even loaned by the government, more companies would be able to install the devices and start seeing real energy savings. Not only would they see a reduction in energy usage, we would too.

    When I view energy efficiency, saving money is merely a by-product. When I think of the amount of gasoline I am not consuming in my Prius, that feeling of satisfaction overwhelms any concerns of pay-back. Most people are not directly paid to put their recyclables by the curb but yet they do it every week. Those facility managers who are purely money intended have every right to buy cheap and inefficient devices based purely on their purchase price and cost of installation. But they will lose money in the long-run based on wasted fuel. The money will hopefully be replenished next year but the energy is gone forever. No matter the fuel source, once you consume it, you can not consume it again. Developing hydropower is great, building slow-reacting nuclear plants would be good, increasing biofuel is really nice. No matter what fuel you use, conserving that fuel is always - let me repeat: always - a very good idea. Not only will it reduce our draw on petroleum today, it will lengthen the supply of tomorrow's fuel whatever that is. Installing LED stoplights (state of KY) last year reduces their draw of electricity forever.

    If we're going to focus exclusively on government spending, then I the way I choose to approach it is pretty simple. I look at a dollar in my hand. I have a nearly limitless number of options how to spend that dollar: buy, invest, war, peace, promote, beat down. When we look at the number of dollars in our government hands and the options they choose to spend the money on, we either agree with them or we do not based upon how we would have spent that same dollar had it been in our own hands. Personally, I spend more to buy more efficient light bulbs, I spent my money buying a car that consumes less gasoline, and my company paid me to teach our employees how to reduce the amount of energy our customers consume (ISO 14001). When I look at my spending habits, I try to be proud of myself. When I see that our elected officials are going against what I stand for, I am annoyed and ashamed and democratically obligated to voice my opinion as loud as I can.
     
  6. RonH

    RonH Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Apr 27 2006, 09:17 AM) [snapback]246078[/snapback]</div>
    All excellent points. My point was that the dumping of a POSSIBLY ineffective program in the DOE is not an excuse to go off on Bush, no matter how good it feels. Not every program with "efficiency" in its name is worth it and may be siphoning dollars from more promising R&D. Bush and Cheney may indeed be sabotaging green gov't programs to benefit Big Oil. But I couldn't ascertain that from this article. I've seen too many programs with one more technical hurdle (the 2nd law of thermodynamics?)
     
  7. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    great post Tony... you made me well up... i am proud to know you.

    as far as attacking. not attacking anyone especially bush. imm, a waste of time. there is so much wrong with him, no need to attack him.

    just pointing out something that i think is the root of the problem we find ourselves in. and its not bush. lets talk about clinton and gore relaxing CAFE in order for the big 3 to design and develope a super efficient car ( they did!! all diesel-electric hybrids that got more mileage than the Prius) it was gore's totally mistaken impression that any manufacturer would rush the product to market because it was so revolutionary and CAFE would no longer be needed (they didnt, said it cost too much... a month later the Prius was brought to the us). the government screwed up about as bad as they possibly could.

    exemptions from CAFE for the worst offenders?? well ya... only way they could put them monster SUV's on the road. so im not bashing bush. we are in the predicament we see now because our government, controlled by big business, has led us by the nose to this. this has been going on for years.
     
  8. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    I'm not surprised.

    In the pursuit of increasing Literacy and reading skills for students our district is saving money by....wait for it......firing librarians. They spent Prop MM money to renovate and build all these beautiful libraries, that will not be locked because there is no one to run them.

    Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Apr 26 2006, 09:58 PM) [snapback]245909[/snapback]</div>
    I think water beads up on Bush. Does that count?