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DCarbon+ product (Act-Ion+) fuel magnetizer

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by markderail, May 6, 2009.

  1. markderail

    markderail I do 45 mins @ 3200 PSI

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    :confused: Is this for real, or another bogus snake oil product :confused:

    Can a 545 Can$ product do :
    - save fuel (as high as 11%)
    - cleaner exhaust for non-PZEV equipped cars
    ( ...AND...would it make a difference on a Prius ??? )

    At first I said no way, anybody can save 11% just changing his driving habits in any car and having a properly tuned car.

    I honestly don't believe Rare Earth magnets would / could do anything, as per thread:

    Since I own a Prius for nearly three years now, and drive in a consistent manner, and this company is based in my backyard, I'm willing to talk to the owner and see what's up. Possibly become a Test Subject?
    IOW, what better car to test with than a Prius that is broken in, has predictable MPG and real-time monitoring.

    (With my luck, the HSD probably has no room to mount the device)


    Also, I'm hoping that the more scientific-minded posters here a PC can pitch in with more information, good or bad. :welcome:

    PLUS, the website is actually entertaining :rolleyes: so it deserves mention (by me) here at PC and be Googled ForEver. Emphasis below by me.

    ACT-ION+ Technology / DCarbon+

    (site works best with IE - there is no publicity)

    Main page (initial is French from Quebec)
    http://dcarbon.com/menu_eng.htm

    Product page:
    http://dcarbon.com/menu_eng_files/Page1271.htm

    Scientific info page:
    http://dcarbon.com/menu_eng_files/Page999.htm
    http://dcarbon.com/menu_eng_files/Page1445.htm
    ​
    Here is the some of the science info, copy/paste, so you don't have to hunt for it.

    In a nutshell :cool:, Mr. Ruskin, then this company's magnetizer, is to influence the Hydrogen's electrons to rotate in another direction, making the hydrogen bond more easily to free oxygen molecules.
    How could that possibly be measure w/o the use of an electron microscope is beyond me. Perhaps the DCarbon+ owner will give me more information, and I'll post in this thread any relevant info.

    This technology was initially patented by Mr. Ruskin in the USA, in order to use hydrogen as fuel for the missile program. This demonstrates the potential for magnetic treatment of hydrogen molecules used in fuels.

    Several researchers, agencies and research institutes have conducted additional studies and filed patents dealing with the effects of magnetic and/or electromagnetic treatment of fuels.

    ( None of this research, however, has been unanimously accepted. )

    We remind the reader, therefore, that we are not those who have discovered the principle embodied in these patents and studies.

    Hydrogen is the lightest and most fundamental element known to man. Its simple structure, consisting of one proton and one electron, make up the basic building blocks of all hydrocarbon fuels (including, of course carbon, sulphur and some inert gases). It can also be diamagnetic or paramagnetic. Which means it reacts in a lower or higher magnetic flux. Thus, it is found in two distinct isomeric varieties (forms) Para hydrogen and Ortho hydrogen, characterized by the opposite rotation direction of the atomic nucleus.

    Take the molecule "Para" in which rotation direction of the Electron is in the opposite direction (counter clockwise, anti-parallel) compared to the Proton, making them diamagnetic. In the case of the "Ortho" molecule, the rotation direction of the electron is in the same direction of rotation (clockwise, parallel) as that of the Proton, making them paramagnetic. Thus, the rotation of atoms has a decidedly pronounced effect on the physical properties, as well as on the behaviour of the gas molecule (H). Coincident rotations make Ortho Hydrogen excessively volatile therefore more responsive compared to Para hydrogen.

    Electromagnetic treatment of fuel is a new technological approach. Changing the rotational property of the electron and its specific magnetic field significantly alters the hydrogen content in the hydrocarbon molecule, raising its "Para" state to an "Ortho"state.

    This more highly active (Ortho) state displays higher electrical potential (reactivity), which attracts additional oxygen.

    This more highly active (Ortho) state displays higher electrical potential (reactivity), which attracts additional oxygen.

    This change of status allows the hydrocarbon molecule to be aggressively attracted and to stick to available oxygen. The status of this situation creates a more complete Hydrocarbon molecule, which provides its own Oxygen supply.

    It has been proven that additional oxygenation of gasoline or diesel fuels increase combustion efficiency, making it more complete. In so doing, it also helps to reduce the emissions of pollutants and consequently improves engine performance.




    ​
     
    #1 markderail, May 6, 2009
  2. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

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    Short answer: None of this crap works, otherwise we'd have done it long ago.

    Some of the science is accurate.. there are two states of hydrogen. However changing between them isn't something you can do with a simple magnet, and even if you could, there's no reason to believe it would increase oxygenation or MPGs. (Oxygenation does provide a cleaner burn, but it decreases MPGs!)

    Most of the literature on the two states of hydrogen is concerned with diatomic hydrogen, H2. That molecule is not present in gasoline. While hydrogen does have spin states in other molecules, there is much less research and the effects generally are not known.
     
    #2 Politburo, May 6, 2009
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  3. Frayadjacent

    Frayadjacent Resident Conservative

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    Snake oil. Don't waste your money.


    Think about it - gasoline does not have any magnetic elements in it. What the **** would a magnet do to gasoline?
     
    #3 Frayadjacent, May 7, 2009
  4. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    It's snake oil since it violates the First law of thermodynamics. Even ignoring the problems of applying H2 physics to C-H bonds, you can't get the ortho without some net energy input. This is the same sort of trouble the hydrogen advocates get themselves into when they start talking about "catalysts reducing the energy required to separate the hydrogen and oxygen." Catalysts change the RATE and often the selectivity of a reaction at a given energy state--reducing the activation energy typically, but don't change the net energy of the reaction itself, which is the result of thermodynamic state functions.

    Ortho/para hydrogen is one of those interesting quirks you come across in advanced thermodynamics classes. Ortho is a higher energy state. And how do we get to the higher energy state, Class? We have to add energy in some fashion--see the 1st Law of Thermo.

    Besides, while I'm very fuzzy on quantum mechanics, my recollection is that ortho/para refer to a diatomic pairing of the covalently bonded hydrogen atoms, NOT monotomic as the article seems to imply. I say that the article implies this because of the references to the electron/proton pair rather than the nuclei pair (protons) which is the basis of ortho/para as I understand it. So I suspect that their explanation of the quantum mechanics is incorrect as well.

    I'm not a physicist and it has been two decades since I last had a thermo course, so perhaps someone a bit more familiar with hydrogen states could weigh in.

    On the other hand, the snake oil claims contain the requisite kernel of truth: that ortho/para ratio can be manipulated with catalysis in diatomic hydrogen and that there are application reasons for doing so. However, these have nothing to do with the claims of manipulating hydrogen individually when the C-H bond dominates.
     
    #4 Celtic Blue, May 7, 2009
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  5. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    magnets: defying the laws of physics and chemistry since the dawn of the marketing pitch.
     
    #5 galaxee, May 7, 2009
  6. Pakman777

    Pakman777 New Member

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    "Pure" snake oil. Consumer reports, if I recall correctly (need to check sources) did a piece on this. I will try and find the link.
     
    #6 Pakman777, May 7, 2009
  7. CharlesJ

    CharlesJ Member

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    Might be the same company that sells magnets to soften water:D or as a shoe insert:D or both:D
     
    #7 CharlesJ, May 11, 2009
  8. GreenJuice

    GreenJuice Active Member

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    The spin isomers refer to the nucleus of the hydrogen atom - nothing to do with its electron and therefore nothing to do with chemical reactivity.

    You can induce magnetisation in a hydrogen-abundant substances like hydrocarbons or water (e.g., the human body) by placing it in a strong magnetic field (e.g., in an MRI scanner). This induced magetisation is exploited to create those amazing pictures of human anatomy and disease in MRI scans, but you can be assured there is certainly no effect on the chemical reactions in the human body! The induced magnetisation disappears within seconds of leaving the magnetic field.

    I have some background in applied physics and would defer to those with more knowledge, particularly in theoretical and nuclear physics. However, even to my limited level of knowledge, I would never put together an explanation as nonsensical as the one quoted by the OP!

    Put another way - snake oil...!
     
    #8 GreenJuice, May 12, 2009
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  9. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    I spent a lot of time spinning hydrogen nuclei in my MRI days. Our scanners got the same mileage regardless of which way we spun the little buggers.

    Tom
     
    #9 qbee42, May 12, 2009
  10. Concept_Hybrid

    Concept_Hybrid MPG GOD

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    Fake Fake Fake...

    Your better off getting a "I <3 My MPG" sticker that will boost your MPG 30 miles a tank!
     
    #10 Concept_Hybrid, May 12, 2009
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