Dealers and 2010 Prius selling practices

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by tarusse1, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. tarusse1

    tarusse1 New Member

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    I am in the market looking for a 2010 Prius either a II or III. I have purchased many new cars in the past but never a Toyota. I have a couple questions about the sales practices and arrogance of Toyota dealers. I have a 2006 Mustang GT and have a KBB value for the car, as well as the edmunds value. I am looking to trade this in for my Prius, and the only local toyota dealer told me that they will only give me what they have seen the GT sell for at Mecum auto auctions which is many thousand dollars less than anything I've seen. I guess my rant and question is why do Toyota dealers feel they can screw people over for the prius. They have about 20 or so on the lot and yet they aren't willing to negotiate on price or the value of my GT. I love the prius and think it is a great car but the dealer practice has me considering another hybrid. Any suggestions?
     
  2. visormate

    visormate New Member

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    KBB is not a true value of the car market.
    The price they show is the most someone has gotten, not the average.

    KBB does not buy cars or sell cars.
    Sell you car on your own if you think it is worth more.
    Craigs list and ebay.

    I'm a Internet manager for a Toyota deal.
    I understand why your frustrated.
     
  3. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Trading in a car will never yield a price close to what you can get by private selling it. It's not Toyota screwing you over on the trade it is the dealership. And all dealerships do it when it comes to trades.

    Now, when you private sell you have to pay the taxes on the full price of the new vehicle. When you trade, you only pay tax on the difference between the trade and new vehicle. Something else to consider...
     
  4. Tom Banjo

    Tom Banjo New Member

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    KBB has four prices, trade in, private party, retail and CPO. I doubt they list only the maximum found, but rather reported averages.

    I just put in some numbers and got "Excellent $14,400" for trade in, $16,585 Private Party, and Retail $19,035.

    There is a pretty big gap between the retail and the trade in. So if their price was close to trade in, it is understandable. The KBB price is (most likely) an average, so there are higher and lower trade ins. If they will only give you a much lower auction price is probably a bit disingenuous as they will probably not really wholesale it out like that. I am assuming there is no real problem with the car.

    You need to look at the whole picture, are they paying off the balance on the car if there is one ? Are they giving you a great price on the prius and financing ? If you are upside down on the car, trading in won't really help. Carmax offers to buy cars, take it there for a quote.

    Dealers need to make money. Dealer compete against other dealers for your business. Be realistic, shop around.
     
  5. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Your lucky if a dealer gives you the lowest number KBB shows you for a trade. Don't even bother with their excellent value shown for a trade in value...

    I think, but I could be wrong, many dealers use some 'Black Book' not KBB and their values are considerably lower than KBB. And even with that, they try to give you the lowest value, even if your vehicle is in truly excellent condition.
     
  6. Tom Banjo

    Tom Banjo New Member

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    here is NADA - pretty close

    Rough Trade-In Average Trade-In Clean Trade-In Clean Retail
    $14,050 $15,325 $16,350 $19,375*
     
  7. tarusse1

    tarusse1 New Member

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    I understand trading in you will not get what retail value, but they were about 3000 or 4000 off the lowest KBB. Also the dealer wouldn't even negotiate on the price of III they had with 1500 miles which was their demo.
     
  8. 32kcolors

    32kcolors Senior Member

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    It's not just Toyota dealers who are lowballing on the trade-in values. Sell privately if you're concerned about getting the most money for your GT.
     
  9. tarusse1

    tarusse1 New Member

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    My biggest issue is that they got their trade in value from what they thought they could get for it from Mecum auto auction. They acted like they were doing me a favor for giving me the privilege of buying from them, and being taken to the cleaners. According to the NADA value they were still under that by about 3000.
     
  10. blippo

    blippo New Member

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    On two separate times I wanted to trade in my cars at a Toyota Dealer, he told me I'd get a better deal if I took my car to Carmax.
     
  11. visormate

    visormate New Member

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    Retail is the most a bank will loan if a car is sold thru a dealer.

    I buy cars at auctions.
    I will not pay more for a trade in if I can buy the same for 2-3 Thousand less.

    The real price for anything is what a buyer will pay in the time you need to sell.
     
  12. visormate

    visormate New Member

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    If you really want to sell car, take it to a Ford dealer and ask them what they will buy it for without buying a car.
    That is the true selling price.
     
  13. Jolly Paul

    Jolly Paul Member

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    That sums it up. The dealer is not setting out to rip off people, but if they can't make enough money from a transaction, they won't do it.

    A big plus for trade in is not having to deal with potential buyers. Do you really want to spend weeks or months advertising a car and being available for test drives? If you do sell the car yourself then you also get to deal with any complaints or actions if the buyer feels the car was misrepresented.
     
  14. Jim Clark

    Jim Clark Member

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    Dealers often like trades because it gives them a chance to confuse you. You must research the new car prices being offered AND the trade value / possible selling price of your car.

    They will send most trades to auction where they'll get a lot less than you could get selling it yourself. But, selling a car to another private party can be a PITA. They'll only keep the "good" trades to sell on their lot.

    If you're going to trade, you must do a lot of research. And you must be brutally honest with yourself about the condition of your trade. Most people think their cars are in better shape than they really are.
     
  15. richard13

    richard13 Junior Member

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    You probably also have to consider if the dealer even wants the vehicle on his used car lot. How well do Ford Mustangs sell on a Toyota lot? How well do they sell in your area? What's the condition of your car? It's not that your car is actually worth less it's what the dealer feels is a safe bet for resale. The reason they are only offering auction price is likely because that's what they plan to do with your trade in.

    Regarding price of the Prius, I am a little surprised they aren't willing to negotiate there. Priuses are popular but not that popular that they wouldn't come down even a little to make a sale. But, if as you say, they are the only Toyota dealer in the area they may feel they don't have to negotiate. Best bet is to find another dealer who has competition nearby even if you have to travel a bit to a city.
     
  16. colfacs

    colfacs New Member

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    Call your local paper and run a classified ad for a couple of days at your fair price. You will soon find a buyer at some figure. Check Trucar's web site for pricing. Deal with Toyota internet/lease mgrs ONLY by email. Broadcast that you are a buyer outright at dlr's invoice for your color , pkg Prius. Send your email to 10 mgrs. Have fun!
     
  17. wvgasguy

    wvgasguy New Member

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    When shopping around, about the best trade offer I ever see is "fair" condition evaluation and somewhere at or a little higher than trade-in value. That is against the "best" cash offer sale price. If it is a desirable car they can keep and sell they may do better. My dealer would rather have a clean trade than an auction car, but they still don't want to put too much more in it than what they can buy at the auction for. The exception to this is if you have a long standing relationship with a dealer and you have clean trades. I usually get closer to Private Party Value as I've bought several cars from my dealer. They can make a lot of money on used auction cars. Probably more than they can on new cars.
     
  18. justaguy

    justaguy New Member

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    Wow i had to pay taxes for the full price of the car even with the trade in. Was the toyota dealer i was with cheating me?
     
  19. kgall

    kgall Active Member

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    Justaguy--On the tax question, whether you pay tax on the total value (as you did) or the net cash paid (net of trade-in) may wary from state to state (and country to country, as this is an international website). You should check the local rules.
    For example, in Arkansas, I do not pay sales tax to the dealer--I pay it to the Dept of Finance and Revenue when I get my tags. I paid sales tax on the basis of MSRP--they didn't ask about discounts or trade ins or whatever.

    OP--it sounds to me like you should shop around, if they won't deal even on a demo. And when you go to the dealer, you should act as though you will not have a trade in. Make your best deal, and THEN see what kind of trade-in you can get. That will be the closest you can get to separating out what the real parts of the deal are.

    I also like the suggestions that some posters have made of trying to shop the Mustang to some Ford dealers or sell through the papers. Either of those might work better than trading in when you buy.
     
  20. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Read through www.carbuyingtips.com and if you are a member go to www.aaa.com to build a car, see their pricing & get dealer quotes. The "old" car is always going to be worth more to you than to anyone else. Mustangs are everywhere. Every lot on my commute seems to have one, regardless of brand.

    State law defines how sales tax is calculated. In many states it is based on the net value but doesn't have to be. Check with your DMV. I doubt the dealer is screwing you over the tax.
     
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