Death of the Pre-Prius Car

Old cars = bad emissions.

You get a star for getting a Prius.
You get another star for taking the old car off the road.

 

once the transmission's bad, abandon ship on that chevy.

i've been trying to tell my mom this with her ford taurus, also 98, with something like 60k on it (shameful, huh?). her tranny's gonna go byebye and it'll be sooner than later. i just don't want her to be forced to buy another car in a hurry.

 

My parents are both in their late 70s, good health, but retired and can't really afford a new car just right now. They have a 10 year old Caddy with about 60,000 miles on it. My mother complains about the car almost constantly. Aside from the fact that the amenities, like the seat heater (for the leather seats) doesn't work and the buttons to set the seat positions don't remember the settings, the car runs just awful now.

It's the spark plugs. All...8? of them. At least one of them still bad, even though they replaced one already. Why not all 8? Apparently you can change four of them OK, but four of them are in the back or something and you have to remove the engine to change them. Or some such nonsense. While the car can run, it runs just awful. She hates it. They've already had it in once and paid hundreds of dollars to change a plug. The mechanic did offer to do them all for....$800? But my Dad said just do the one. You can guess the rest. It needs all of them done now.

They can't afford to replace the car. But I know they'll never buy another Caddy. My Dad says the next car he'll buy is a Lexus. I've been trying to talk them into a Camry. It's not as big or as pretentious. But they don't need either, especially for the price of a Lexus. And while my Father says he'll never buy a hybrid, my mother likes my car. In fact, they asked me to pick them up (they usually drive me) when we went up to visit my sister the last time. I'm thinking because their car runs so bad and gets lousy mileage.

I haven't managed to get either of them to drive my Prius yet. But getting them to ride in it is a big step.

I think when they replace the Caddy I have a shot at getting them into either a Prius or a Cambrid. I know the price of gas will be in my Dad's mind, not the price of the car. And I know he respects the craftsmanship of Toyota. Now it just depends on how long the Caddy will live.

They're not going to be able to trace in the Caddy. I doubt it sincerely. But then, my Dad usually sells his cars privately. In the case of your car, you might consider donating it to a charity to sell. They probably won't get much but it will be easier for you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 15 2006, 01:56 PM) [snapback]286802[/snapback]</div>

Did you say Caddy or Baddy? Either the mechanic is dishonest or the people who designed that car are idiots. I heard a rumour about the ancient GMC Pacer having that problem with the two rear plugs, but that was thirty years ago. This still goes on?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Jul 15 2006, 01:07 PM) [snapback]286808[/snapback]</div>

I don't know how many plugs and if you have to remove the engine, but apparently it *is* designed badly and you have to remove something that a do-it-yourselfer can't do at home. And whatever it is, the costs in labor are several hundred dollars.

Yes, designed stupid. I guess they figure anyone that could afford to buy a Caddy could afford $800 to have the spark plugs changed.

I remember looking at new cars 15-20 years ago in a shopping mall. A new car show. They had the hood up on one...and the spare tire was in front, behind the engine, under the front dash. I looked at it and I looked at the salesman and I said...I can see myself, hitching up my skirt, climbing up on the fender and trying to lift that sucker, at arm's length, up and over the engine. That is the stupidest thing I've every seen. Let me guess...a man designed this."

I think his response was something about hitching up my skirt on the freeway and getting a man to stop and change it for me.

I always check under the hood, for where the oil filter and stick are, etc. I always check in the trunk for where the spare, jack, etc. are. I look in the glove compartment. I look for where all of the controls are. I mean....who doesn't? If a car is designed stupid for those things....I'll bet the mechanics are stupid too.

 

my old buick required a real fight to change the 3 spark plugs on the backside of the engine. took us all afternoon and it turned out that noone had done it before, which was funny because i paid over $200 for a tune-up that included replacing all plugs a couple years earlier.

i've found that service prices (particularly labor) go up drastically with luxury vehicles, even though they may be mechanically the same as a non-luxury brand owned by the same corporation. stupid but true. more money wherever they can get it from ya.

 

Which Cadillac do they have? I agree, whoever is trying to charge them $800 to do a tune up is really trying to rip them off. Cadillacs, being FWD V8s, have transversely mounted engines making the back 4 harder to do than the front, but not THAT hard. They're getting taken.

As for a Camry being smaller than a Lexus, you do know Lexus has a model SMALLER than the Camry, and one based ON the Camry right?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Jul 16 2006, 12:45 PM) [snapback]287180[/snapback]</div>

It might have been $600, I don't remember but it was hundreds and over $500 for all 8.

I don't know what model. It has four doors and is maybe a 1996 or 97?

Possibly a deVille?

I agree with the inflated price. This was from Guy Hill Cadillac in Mission Valley, San Diego, CA. I understand they are closing soon. And the Buick place on Balboa Ave lost their lease and is moving to the Miramar and merging with a Buick place up there.

My mother is getting a quote from the Buick place as they are much closer. I offered to get one from my neighborhood mechanic who is both good AND honest. But she said no.

I think it's an outrageous price to just change some spark plugs. Is it unreasonable to expect spark plugs to last more than 50,000 miles? I mean, it's not like they're rubber parts and are time sensitive. The car is ten years old but do spark plugs age with time or use? Oh, and the car is kept garaged at night.

 

As a 96 its either a Deville, a Seville, or a Fleetwood. The Fleetwood is the really big one they always used as the Presidential Limo, the Deville is slightly smaller but still has vertical taillights and the Seville is roughly Lexus GS sized and has horizontal taillights. If its a Fleetwood its RWD and then they're really full of it.

Still though, I think they're getting taken on that deal. They should look around for an independent mechanic and maybe you should go with them when they get the estimate. A lot of times places will try and take advantage of older people because they can. You seem like a pretty stick to your guns kind of person, I bet they'd have a harder time lying to you.

Another thing you have to remember is dealers always sell stuff in packages. So, they can't really just "do a tuneup" it has to be part of a major service package. A tuneup at Lexus costs between $1200-$1800 depending on which model you have because its part of the major 90k service. An independent mechanic won't have this issue. $350-$400 to do a tuneup on that car is probably about fair.

As or how long they last, that depends. I believe all 96 Cadillacs used platinum tipped spark plugs. Now, they're supposed to last 100k miles. Whether they do or not depends on how the vehicle is driven, the type of gas used, the way its maintained etc.

 

If it's any comfort, Prius plugs are easy. You have to take out
the wiper cowling, but that's pretty easy, and then everything's
just a long-socket-extension away. I pulled mine to anti-sieze
them [30K miles or so] because of the warnings that if left in there
all the way to 120K they'd be well-nigh impossible to crack loose --
after seeing these threads *bone* dry, I think I believe that.
Better a little preventative time spent now, than rip shreds out of
the head later...
.
_H*