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Deciding between a new 2010 and a used 2005-2009 Prius. Need help!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by lethalsvt, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. lethalsvt

    lethalsvt New Member

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    I was told by the dealer that the new Prius would get 12mpg more than the Gen II models, as well as much more. I do a lot of driving (25,000 miles a year, mostly highway) and figured a Prius would save me a lot in fuel.

    Looking at a 2006 with around 50k miles for about 11,000 or a new 2010 Prius, no miles, for around $22000~). Would the $10,000 or more I have to spend on a new one justify the better gas mileage, lower miles (0 miles), and full warranty?
     
  2. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Do a search...hunt around a little..

    In general I would say there is NOWHERE close to a 12mpg difference between the 2 generations. Toyota likes to advertise the EPA of 50 on the Gen 3 but the Gen 2 is capable of very, very close performance.

    As far as the rest of your question: Would the $10,000 or more I have to spend on a new one justify the better gas mileage, lower miles (0 miles), and full warranty? -Only you can answer that...

    But I would be distrusting of the dealership or salesperson that is telling you that the gap between Gen 2 and Gen 3 is 12mpg.

    Depending on how you drive the gap can be almost non-existent.

    Let other factors....be your decider...but IMO gas mileage difference wouldn't be a factor in a decision between Gen2 and Gen3.

    And really? Bad sign that the dealership is already being untruthful and trying to spin you into a bigger purchase...I'd try a different dealership.
     
  3. macmaster05

    macmaster05 Senor Member

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    Honestly I would tell you to get a used 2010 model, now that they've been out for so long. They can be found with relatively low miles and $3-5k under retail price. I wouldn't bother with a Gen II anymore. And while I love mine, for a new buyer it's probably getting outdated.

    That 12mpg difference is at the very end of the end of the bell curve for drivers; pretty unlikely. My mom got 56mpg in her Gen II and got 64 mpg in the Gen III. She's a good/slow/careful driver. I'd easily imagine a 43mpg Gen IIer getting 51-52mpg in a Gen III. Again, a 8mpg difference at most.
     
  4. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    No. It's unlikely that a Gen III would get 12 mpg better than at Gen II. You can lookup EPA estimates at Side-by-Side Comparison. You can see what Consumer Reports got on the Gen II at ConsumerReports.org - Most fuel-efficient cars vs. Gen III at Most fuel-efficient cars.

    If you're going to buy used, I see that you're in MA. To be on the safe side, I'd make sure that it was bought and/or registered the whole time in one of these states: California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Oregon and Vermont ensure you get the 10 year/150K mile HV battery warranty. These are CARB emission states that qualify you for the longer warranty. I'm not sure what happens if it wasn't bought in one of those states or spent some time registered outside them.

    IMHO, the Gen III is a superior car overall and I think most here on PC would agree...
     
  5. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    What makes you call the Gen 2 outdated in comparison to a Gen 3? Outside of No Gas Bladder, No Coolant Thermos..heat reclamation system instead...and a redesigned power train and beltless engine...I think the 2 vehicles are very comparable.

    With arguements possible for superiority of either. You have some advantages in Gen 3 such as no Gas Bladder...and no coolant thermos and a beltless engine.

    But a Gen 2 has a much, much longer track record.

    About 2 years ago I passed on purchasing one of the last NEW 2009 model Prius...to wait for the Gen 3. Now, I own a Honda Fit. I don't regret continuing to wait on my Hybrid Purchase of a Gen 3 Prius as much as I think I regret NOT buying the New Gen 2 when I had the chance....

    Plus IMO at least in my area, used 2010's are still pretty rare, as most people keep a new car at least 6-12 months even if they are pretty unhappy...and I always question why someone would be unhappy so quickly with a purchase...unless the automobile is lemon. I would be very nervous buying a used vehicle of the same model year still available new....to me buying a 2010...at that point might as well go new...avoid the potential problems that might of had a previous owner unhappy....

    I think things are on the verge of changing pretty rapidly for all hybrids. With Battery technology and available offerings comparitively, like The Leaf and The PHEV Prius...then I might compare and call the Gen 2 and Gen 3 somewhat outdated...but a direct comparison between Gen 2 and Gen 3? Seemed to me to be more of a refinement, styling update than a tangible technology shift.
     
  6. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Only you can make that decision.

    I faced the same issues and bought a 2010 (14 months ago). I now have 32000 absolutely trouble free miles, and have driven across the country twice this year. All day in the seat for 4 days (each way), no pain, 52 mpg average for 7500 miles (the last trip). You need to consider how long you will keep the vehicle (do you trade every two years for example). Sit in both, the ergonomics in the 2010 are a bit better for some people.Also, I like the fact that the unit body has sufficient rigidity that "stiffener plates" are not required in the G3.

    I personally like the interior design ... even the center console. Some do not. One writer said the interior "killed the deal" for him.

    I would be very skeptical about any claim that the G3 achieves 12 mpg better than a G2. However, I have consistently done better than the EPA findings, and better than Consumer Reports 44 mpg report.

    Let us know what you decide. The suggestion to look for a used 2010 might be a great idea.
     
  7. bretaz

    bretaz Member

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    When he said outdated, the first thing I thought of was style. The 2nd gen look dated in my opinion. Technology wise, I would consider either one.
     
  8. macmaster05

    macmaster05 Senor Member

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    The Gen II has an outstanding history. It's no wonder why it's called Iconic. But in terms of styling and technology, Toyota is shifting solely towards the Gen III. With more and more support from PriusChat and Toyota and the availability aftermarket parts, you can no longer go wrong with a Gen III.

    I still think my modified Gen II Touring beats any other Prius but most Prius owners don't bother to mod it so I have to say go with Gen III.
     
  9. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Besides the above, there are a ton of features on the Gen III that were unavailable on the Gen II such as heated seats, power lumbar adjustment, solar roof (you couldn't get a sunroof on the 2nd gen at all), DRCC, IPA, LKA/LDW, remote AC, traffic data on the nav system, A2DP BT music streaming, Safety Connect service, 3 more modes (EV, power, eco buttons), 17" wheels, USB port, LED headlights and probably a bunch of others I've left out.
     
  10. Orange Crush

    Orange Crush New Member

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    I just traded a 2006 to a new 2010. Gen III is awesome and I'm very happy.

    I will say the 2006 served us well so if you go with that, I don't think it'd be a bad thing.
     
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Officially, I believe the difference is 4mpg (50mpg vs. 46mpg) , right?

    I guess it depends on which vehicle you feel more comfortable driving. Which driving position do you find more comfortable. I noticed that the Gen 2 has better sightlines because of a lower window sill and a higher seating position. With the Gen 3, the window sills are higher and I have to sit lower to get proper thigh support so it feels less open imo.
     
  12. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Using the same EPA scoring the Gen2 was 45mpg vs. the Gen3's 50mpg. I expected a 10% improvement. I'm still trying. The fuel economy of the Gen3 is more consistant and it is easier to achieve a higher average. In my experience if the Gen3 is going to cost more than a Gen2 then the difference won't be recovered by fuel savings.
     
  13. oxnardprof

    oxnardprof Member

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    Just to add my opinion, if you can find a lower mileage Gen II, get it. In my case, a 2008 Touring II with 24K miles beats a gen III Prius. I paid 17K for it, and would have to spend between 25 and 30 K for a Gen III with leather seats, navigation, etc.

    I prefer to save cash, and hold the car for a long times.
     
  14. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi Lethal..,

    EPA ratings not-withstanding, operationally, on a yearly average, there is little difference in mileage performance of a Gen II to a Gen III. The Gen III is going to do better in cold clear days of winter because of the heat recovery system. But the Gen II having smaller lighter tires, and less engine weight, does better in the summer, and better in up/and/down speed driving.

    While, its supposed to do better on the higway, I just do not see it here. I think the issue is the Gen III has more cross-section area, which results in greater aero drag, and that pretty much matches the improvement they have gotten out of the engine. The bigger tire openings on the Gen III make it more sensitive to cross winds, which probably increase the effective Cd (and drag) with cross winds compared to a Gen II. A Gen II without a stiffening plate will be very sensitive to cross winds, but with a chasis stiffening plate, its very good.

    Possibly, at speeds above 64 mph, the Gen III does better as the Gen II has a knee in the mileage curve, where it starts to do allot worse in mileage above 64 mph. I would expect the Gen III to have that knee about 10 mph higher.

    Around suburban secondary roads, its no contest, the Gen II is much more repsonsive to hypermiling techinques, and one can easily get 10 mpg better out of a Gen II than a Gen III. At least, that has been my experience so far. Although, the capability to do 44 mph EV, allows one to do hypermiling that is less noticable by other cars on the road, in a Gen III.

    The Gen III has a better warm-up cycle. Once it reaches various temperature setpoints, it locks in the better mileage performance mode from that time onward. This is better for short trips. The Gen II has an anoying habbit of droping back in the cycle, if you get caught at a lite, or glide down a shallow grade for a mile or two. And, then the engine wont auto-stop until its back warmed up again.
     
  15. Downrange

    Downrange Active Member

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    Toyota is an intelligent company. They refined the Gen II and gave people what they wanted in the Gen III. It is a vastly superior motor vehicle, imo. People were buying new Gen III base models for right around 21K, all in, not long ago. I'd check around on price.
     
  16. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    That's all fine, and I agree with all that. BUT just my opinion, personally I don't call something "outdated" until there is a significant technology shift or advancement.

    While there was significant change between Gen 2 and Gen 3, you are still basicly dealing with very similar underlying hybrid technology, battery pack, etc....so for me "personally" I wouldn't refer to a comparison between Gen 2 Prius and Gen 3 Prius and refer to Gen 2 as being "outdated". Despite some changes as noted...

    Infact, I think the greatest leap...is coming up. It will be between a Gen 3 Hybrid and the PHEV Prius. That represents a more tangible technology shift....

    Again it's just my personal way of looking at things. BUT if I was considering (as the OP was) either a Gen 2 Prius, or a Gen 3 Prius, I don't think I would evaluate the Gen 2 as less of a purchase based on the notion that it was "outdated" in any tangible comparitable actual technology....

    However, it's a "semi" gray area...as there is no gas bladder, no coolant thermos, a heat reclamation system and Toyota touted a redesigned power train in the Gen 3.

    I still think the majority of difference between the 2 Generations lies in styling and available options....and sometimes it could be argued in the case of Smart Key and MFD and back-up camera's...the nod would go to Generation 2.

    In my opinon.
     
  17. xpcman

    xpcman Senior Member

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    You want to save money - then, The most money saved will be come from the least up-front cost. I own both a 2008 (30k miles) and a 2010 (20k miles) and would say that there is a 6 to 8 miles per gallon difference from the Gen II to the Gen III. I found that the Gen II got pushed around by the wind at freeway speeds. But, the Gen III doesn't. In buying a used Prius the age of the battery is more important than the mileage. So, I would by the newest one that you can find.
     
  18. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    You won't see much mileage difference between the Gen II and Gen III Prius. The difference is more noticeable at highway speeds. The Gen III will do a bit better at high speed verses the Gen II, or more properly stated, the Gen III will suffer less at high speed. Speed is a mileage killer for both.

    Tom
     
  19. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Greetings and Welcome Aboard!!!

    Answer: Probably not.

    For most people, five figures is a lot of money.
    Most Americans have a reeeeeally interesting interpretation of the word 'need'.

    OK... If you can afford a new car, go for it! I always buy new, and nothing beats putting that first mile on a new car.

    If you're asking if buying new is more fiscally sound than buying used, then the answer is almost always gonna be (expletive deleted) NO!
    Nobody outside the US Government, or maybe P.T. Barnum can justify saving money by spending money.


    Good Luck!!!
    :D
     
  20. rebenson

    rebenson Member

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    You should go with Gen III over Gen II! Are definitely there and though it is a new generation. Solid performer and in my opinion have only improved the car each year. ANd the 2010 is roomier.. Agree that you will need to be happy with the design changes they have made, but I actually liked the roomier interior. (My primary car prior was a 2002 Mercury SABLE and I lost nothing with cabin / cargo space!).

    When I purchased my 2010 I looked a used options and they were out there in May. I would imagine this could be a good time to buy with people that may be going through 1st winter and not being happy with MPG they are getting. Also people that are trading up...

    If you are doing mostly highway I don't see the better gas mileage at all. I would be supprised with 5 MPG.