Democracy on the Move - Kuwait

dbermanmd · Jun 29, 2006

Thought I should post some great news from the Middle East. It seems as though the seeds of democracy we have been sowing are taking root.... Hard to see how this would have happened without President Bush's foreign policies.

Kuwaiti Women Make Historic Vote in Gulf Region

High turnout is expected today as Kuwaiti women become the first women in any Gulf Arab state to be allowed to vote in national elections.

An election campaign volunteer, center, helps an elderly Kuwaiti woman voter, left, into a polling station at Salwa, Kuwait City on Thursday, June 29, 2006 during the country's parliamentary elections, the first to include women. (AP Photo/Gustavo Ferrari)

Kuwaiti women today made history as they became the first women to vote in Parliamentary elections for any Gulf Arab State:

The polls marked a new stage in the U.S. allyâ€™s tentative moves toward greater democracy - and not just because of the entry of women. The election brought unprecedented political activism in a country where the ruling family has strong influence over politics, with conservative Islamists joining liberals in demanding electoral reform and protesting corruption.

Women, who won the right to vote and run for office last year, went to separate polling stations from men, choosing among 252 candidates competing for 50 parliamentary seats. Twenty-eight candidates were women.

"Before, election day did not mean anything to us," said Gizlan Dashti, 22, a university student wearing jeans and a red headscarf. "Now, women have a say."

With women making up 57 percent of Kuwaitâ€™s electorate of 340,000, even fundamentalist Muslims who opposed giving them the right to vote have campaigned for their support.

Women voters were greeted at the polling stations with roses and umbrellas to block the sun.

Nabeela Al Anjari an economist and a candidate running for a seat in Kuwait's parliament smiles as she arrives at a polling station in Kuwait June 29, 2006. Kuwaitis voted for a new parliament on Thursday with women running and casting ballots for the first time in a national poll in the Gulf Arab state. (REUTERS/Zohra Bensemra)

Godiva · Jun 29, 2006

Wow, I had no idea we had invaded Kuwait too.

wstander · Jun 29, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jun 29 2006, 12:40 PM) [snapback]278734[/snapback]</div>

Wow, I had no idea we had invaded Kuwait too.
[/b]
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3. 2. 1......

............rimshot.................... :lol:

burritos · Jun 29, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 29 2006, 12:49 PM) [snapback]278677[/snapback]</div>

Thought I should post some great news from the Middle East. It seems as though the seeds of democracy we have been sowing are taking root.... Hard to see how this would have happened without President Bush's foreign policies.

Kuwaiti Women Make Historic Vote in Gulf Region

High turnout is expected today as Kuwaiti women become the first women in any Gulf Arab state to be allowed to vote in national elections.

An election campaign volunteer, center, helps an elderly Kuwaiti woman voter, left, into a polling station at Salwa, Kuwait City on Thursday, June 29, 2006 during the country's parliamentary elections, the first to include women. (AP Photo/Gustavo Ferrari)

Kuwaiti women today made history as they became the first women to vote in Parliamentary elections for any Gulf Arab State:

The polls marked a new stage in the U.S. allyâ€™s tentative moves toward greater democracy - and not just because of the entry of women. The election brought unprecedented political activism in a country where the ruling family has strong influence over politics, with conservative Islamists joining liberals in demanding electoral reform and protesting corruption.

Women, who won the right to vote and run for office last year, went to separate polling stations from men, choosing among 252 candidates competing for 50 parliamentary seats. Twenty-eight candidates were women.

"Before, election day did not mean anything to us," said Gizlan Dashti, 22, a university student wearing jeans and a red headscarf. "Now, women have a say."

With women making up 57 percent of Kuwaitâ€™s electorate of 340,000, even fundamentalist Muslims who opposed giving them the right to vote have campaigned for their support.

Women voters were greeted at the polling stations with roses and umbrellas to block the sun.

Nabeela Al Anjari an economist and a candidate running for a seat in Kuwait's parliament smiles as she arrives at a polling station in Kuwait June 29, 2006. Kuwaitis voted for a new parliament on Thursday with women running and casting ballots for the first time in a national poll in the Gulf Arab state. (REUTERS/Zohra Bensemra)
[/b]
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And they can keep voting too, at least until they decide to stop selling oil to us.

Sufferin' Prius Envy · Jun 29, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 29 2006, 10:49 AM) [snapback]278677[/snapback]</div>

Thought I should post some great news from the Middle East. It seems as though the seeds of democracy we have been sowing are taking root.... Hard to see how this would have happened without President Bush's foreign policies.

Kuwaiti Women Make Historic Vote in Gulf Region

High turnout is expected today as Kuwaiti women become the first women in any Gulf Arab state to be allowed to vote in national elections.[/b]
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Care to provide a link?
Something just doesn't look right in what is written - â€œ . . . Kuwaiti women become the first women in any Gulf Arab state to be allowed to vote in national elections.â€ :huh:

An ordinary Iraqi woman giving the finger to the insurgents.
http://www.rhsager.com/mo/misc_miscellany/

SSimon · Jun 30, 2006

yes, i agree something doesn't look right with the initial post information. besides that, kuwait was progressing in this area regardless of (and even before) our presence. i don't think that the death of thousands of u.s. troops was necessary to give the cause a slight nudge.

yes, i agree something doesn't look right with the initial post information. besides that, kuwait was progressing in this area regardless of (and even before) our presence. i don't think that the death of thousands of u.s. troops was necessary to give the cause a slight nudge.

yes, i agree something doesn't look right with the initial post information. besides that, kuwait was progressing in this area regardless of (and even before) our presence. i don't think that the death of thousands of u.s. troops was necessary to give the cause a slight nudge.

yes, i agree something doesn't look right with the initial post information. besides that, kuwait was progressing in this area regardless of (and even before) our presence. i don't think that the death of thousands of u.s. troops was necessary to give the cause a slight nudge.

yes, i agree something doesn't look right with the initial post information. besides that, kuwait was progressing in this area regardless of (and even before) our presence. i don't think that the death of thousands of u.s. troops was necessary to give the cause a slight nudge.

yes, i agree something doesn't look right with the initial post information. besides that, kuwait was progressing in this area regardless of (and even before) our presence. i don't think that the death of thousands of u.s. troops was necessary to give the cause a slight nudge.

fshagan · Jul 1, 2006

Pay attention, people. Kuwait is the first Islamic country in the Persian Gulf to give women the vote without pressure (invasion) from the US.

After we kicked the Taliban's nice person, we encouraged the Afghanis to allow women to vote, and to attend school. They are doing that now. In fact, two women held posts in the transitional Afghani government, Human Rights Commissioner Dr. Sima Samar (link: http://www.afghanland.com/history/samar.html ) and the head of the Public Health ministry, Dr. Sohaila Siddiqi (link: http://www.afghanland.com/history/transitional.html).

Women voted in the Iraqi elections, and their government today has the following women ministers as of 5/22/2006: Housing and Construction Minister Bayan Dazee, Environment Minister Narmin Othman, Minister of State for Women's Affairs Fatin Abdel-Rahman, and Human Rights Minister Wijdan Mikaeil. In addition, the following ministries were held by women in the interim government and as far as I know remain in power: Minister of Communications Jwan Maasoum, Minister of Environment Nermin Othman, Minister of Migration and Displacement Suhaila Jaafar, Minister of Municipalities and Public Works Nesreen Berwari,
Minister of Science and Technology Bassima Boutros, and Minister of State for Womenâ€™s Affairs Dr. Azhar Abdul Karim Al Sheikhly.

Democratic reforms are also starting to show in Turkey, Morocco and, if it can ever be stabilized, Jordan. I hope the next President is a democrat so we can start recognizing these accomplishments instead of simply ignoring them.

Sufferin' Prius Envy · Jul 2, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jun 30 2006, 11:58 PM) [snapback]279578[/snapback]</div>

Pay attention, people. Kuwait is the first Islamic country in the Persian Gulf to give women the vote without pressure (invasion) from the US.

After we kicked the Taliban's nice person, we encouraged the Afghanis to allow women to vote . . .

Democratic reforms are also starting to show in Turkey, Morocco and, if it can ever be stabilized, Jordan. I hope the next President is a democrat so we can start recognizing these accomplishments instead of simply ignoring them.[/b]
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The idea that Islamic countries don't let women vote without invasion from the US is about as absurd as saying all Prius drivers only care about mileage. Women in Afghanistan were voting since 1963 - prior to the arrival of the Taliban. It didn't take our kicking the Taliban's nice person to get Afghanistan to accept the concept of allowing women to vote.
The statement in the OP that â€œKuwaiti women become the first women in any Gulf Arab state to be allowed to vote in national electionsâ€ is ridiculous.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_Arab_States

Women's Suffrage
(Gulf Arab countries in bold)
1930 â€“ Turkey
1947 â€“ Pakistan
1952 - Lebanon
1953 - Syrian Arab Republic
1963 - Afghanistan
1970 â€“ Yemen
1973 â€“ Bahrain
1974 â€“ Jordan
1980 - Iraq
1986 â€“ Djibouti
1963 - Iran & Morocco
2001 - Bahrain
2003 â€“ Oman
http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/suffrage.htm
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factb...ields/2123.html

DEMOCRATIC REFORMS???? :huh:
The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular, constitutional republic whose political system was established in 1923. Turkey is a member state of the United Nations, NATO, OSCE, OECD, OIC, and the Council of Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

Morocco is a de jure constitutional monarchy, with an elected parliament. Morocco is also a Major non-NATO ally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally

Are you saying you hope the next President is a democrat so the news organizations will stop hiding these accomplishments????

fshagan · Jul 2, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Jul 2 2006, 05:01 PM) [snapback]280293[/snapback]</div>

The idea that Islamic countries don't let women vote without invasion from the US is about as absurd as saying all Prius drivers only care about mileage. Women in Afghanistan were voting since 1963 - prior to the arrival of the Taliban. It didn't take our kicking the Taliban's nice person to get Afghanistan to accept the concept of allowing women to vote.
[/b]
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Kind of hair splitting, isn't it? Did women, or did they not, have the right to vote when we invaded them and kicked the Taliban's nice person? Or are you just ignoring the entire Wahabi / Radical Fundamentalist revolution in the Arab world?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Jul 2 2006, 05:01 PM) [snapback]280293[/snapback]</div>

DEMOCRATIC REFORMS???? :huh:
The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular, constitutional republic whose political system was established in 1923. Turkey is a member state of the United Nations, NATO, OSCE, OECD, OIC, and the Council of Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

Morocco is a de jure constitutional monarchy, with an elected parliament. Morocco is also a Major non-NATO ally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally

Are you saying you hope the next President is a democrat so the news organizations will stop hiding these accomplishments????
[/b]
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Morocco and Turkey were given as examples of where Islam and democratic reforms co-exist. I should have clarified that they are also heading toward more democratic reforms rather than having fundamentalist revolutions away from democratic reforms. Or perhaps you think because Iran is in that Wikipedia list that women still vote there?

The news media is not hiding these reforms. But partisan democrats continue to minimize them to acheive their own ends, even if it means ignoring the plight of billions of people throughout the world. I am astounded when I see such cynicism.

If a democrat doesn't win next time out, and we stay the course and see democratic reforms take hold in the region, will you all say you were always for it, just like you did with the demise of the Soviet Union? Or will you switch quickly to the next crisis of the moment to try and get your guy in power?

Sufferin' Prius Envy · Jul 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jul 2 2006, 05:33 PM) [snapback]280308[/snapback]</div>

Or perhaps you think because Iran is in that Wikipedia list that women still vote there?[/b]
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No, I don't base all my knowledge on what is listed in Wikipedia.

IRAN:

Suffrage: Universal at 15.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5314.htm

Suffrage: 15 years of age; universal
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html

And exactly what do you base your knowledge on? Any credible links you can provide which say women in Iran do not vote?

fshagan · Jul 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Jul 2 2006, 09:10 PM) [snapback]280382[/snapback]</div>

No, I don't base all my knowledge on what is listed in Wikipedia.

IRAN:

Suffrage: Universal at 15.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5314.htm

Suffrage: 15 years of age; universal
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html

And exactly what do you base your knowledge on? Any credible links you can provide which say women in Iran do not vote?
[/b]
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You're right ... I was mistaken in my assumption that the fundamentalist version of Sharia Law imposed by the Islamic Revolution took the same tack that the Taliban did in Afghanistan. Women did not lose the right to vote in Iran, even after 1979. (Iranians are also not arabs, so it doesn't speak to the original quote anyway, but I did specifically state erroneously that Iranian women had lost the right to vote with their revolution).

MarinJohn · Jul 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Jul 2 2006, 09:10 PM) [snapback]280382[/snapback]</div>

No, I don't base all my knowledge on what is listed in Wikipedia.

IRAN:

Suffrage: Universal at 15.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5314.htm

Suffrage: 15 years of age; universal
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html

And exactly what do you base your knowledge on? Any credible links you can provide which say women in Iran do not vote?
[/b]
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Of course he can't intelligently discuss with you using supporting facts. It's modus operandi for Cons to make up stuff and then pedal it as fact. We see it every time there is any discussion. Liars and the lies they use. See Faux news. See MS and the few others on this board who are still in the dark ages.

Sufferin' Prius Envy · Jul 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Jul 3 2006, 08:25 AM) [snapback]280506[/snapback]</div>

Of course he can't intelligently discuss with you using supporting facts. It's modus operandi for Cons to make up stuff and then pedal it as fact. We see it every time there is any discussion. Liars and the lies they use. See Faux news. See MS and the few others on this board who are still in the dark ages.[/b]
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Gee MarinJohn, letting your bias show a little there â€“ don't ya think? :blink:

I detest fabrications on both sides of the political spectrum.

We hear the constant liberal drone of â€œFaux News" ~ â€œFaux News" ~ â€œFaux News," yet where is the proof that Fox News lies or fabricates stories??? Just because you don't like their reporting doesn't mean their reportings are lies. And if you are referring to the talking heads arguing back and forth, isn't that like blaming a newspaper for the Editorial and Opinion pages???
Speaking of news fabrications . . . Do I need to bring up Dan Rather, CBS, and the forged Bush military documents?

Blaming the vastly outnumbered conservatives here on PriusChat of making up stuff and then pedaling it as fact is also a little disingenuous by telling less than half the story.
Need I remind everyone of daniel's doozy?

Ah, why not :lol: . . .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 2 2006, 07:59 AM) [snapback]248538[/snapback]</div>

Entering the US without permission is not against the law. You can be deported for it, and you can be "detained" pending hearings or deportation. But you cannot be sentenced to jail or prison for it. The undocumented people so often refered to as "illegals" have not broken any law by coming here without permission.[/b]
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He even promised to respond to the proof to the contrary that I had posted:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 4 2006, 05:31 PM) [snapback]249965[/snapback]</div>

To all who have remained civil in this debate: It is indeed illegal to aid and abet an undocumented immigrant, or to employ one. For the rest, I will not respond to the substantive point until I have had a chance to check with my original sources, as I left that office when I moved out of Fargo last fall. It won't happen this week, though, as I'll be out of town and away from the internet over the weekend.[/b]
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WoW! Two months. T.W.O. Months! It's been one long week for daniel. Don't ya think it's time for him to come clean? <_<

MarinJohn · Jul 3, 2006

Gee MarinJohn, letting your bias show a little there â€“ don't ya think? :blink:

I detest fabrications on both sides of the political spectrum.

What? Me biased? CERTAINLY! against both sides of the political spectrum too. Anyone who regularily reads my posts will find many examples of raging against both sides. However, and this is important...there are vast differences between progressives and cons. Progressives are a mess and couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Cons on the other hand, as a generalization are just that. cons.

Progressives fight for all at the expense of the few. Cons fight to protect their own personal interests at the expense of the many. They're both off track equally.

However, I can relate to fighting for the benefit of many vs. fighting for personal enrichment at the expense of the massses. TO support the underdog was once our national pasttime. biased, naturally. Tired that lies, cheating, stealing having become forced down my throat as the new world order, yes. Just to cool you off (and as stated before) I ADMIRE the cons for their organization and effectiveness. I laugh at the progressives for their inability to make hay while the sun shines, they're pitiful.

I really do believe we could do better by picking all our leaders randomly out of the phone book.
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fshagan · Jul 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Jul 3 2006, 08:25 AM) [snapback]280506[/snapback]</div>

Of course he can't intelligently discuss with you using supporting facts. It's modus operandi for Cons to make up stuff and then pedal it as fact. We see it every time there is any discussion. Liars and the lies they use. See Faux news. See MS and the few others on this board who are still in the dark ages.
[/b]
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Gee, MarinJohn, did you even read my mea culpa on this one? It appeared several hours before your post.

I do not feel that women in present day Iran enjoy equal rights, but I was absolutely wrong in one respect: they do have the right to vote. I even explained how I made my error: I thought the imposition of the fundamentalist view of Sharia in Iran was in the same vein as the imposition of Sharia Law in Afghanistan under the Taliban (where voting rights were suspended).

Being wrong on something is not the same as lying. I was wrong, but I did not lie. As soon as my error was pointed out, I did some research and admitted that I was wrong.

hycamguy07 · Jul 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jun 29 2006, 03:40 PM) [snapback]278734[/snapback]</div>

Wow, I had no idea we had invaded Kuwait too.[/b]
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'wstander': 3. 2. 1......

............rimshot....................

Dammit! trying to stop the burning effect of the pepsi that just shot out of my nose! :blink: :huh: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Democracy on the Move - Kuwait

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