Democrats and Terror - Role Playing

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 10 2006, 08:24 AM) [snapback]300751[/snapback]</div>

Refit the CIA for surgical strikes where its needed with minimum civilian losses. Similar to what was done in Afghanistan after sep 11.

The fact that the plotters came from so many disparate countries verifies that this "war" can not be won with military might but with intelligence and technology. If you are suggesting we attack the arab WORLD; I would think we would have had enough with one country.

You have not watched this have you?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/view/

I encourage other Priuschat readers to not acknowledge your posts until you verify you at least have this modicum of information.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 10 2006, 10:01 AM) [snapback]300773[/snapback]</div>

What you do? Attack another country, killing more innocents, creating more hatred for the US, more terrorists with even greater motivation to strike us again, and draining our coffers and our military capability even drier?

If we spent a fraction of the money and resources we have squandered in Iraq on counterintelligence and the kind of activites Alric is referring to, we might actually have a chance in this battle. I would rather see us burn the money we have spent on Iraq in a big bonfire than to use it to further inflame the Islac world against us, which is all Bush has accomplished.

 

Well from what I hear most Dems and Libs would just rather sit down and ask them what they want if they will like us... just look at North Korea.. we did that with them and now they are launching MSL's. If people would wake up, they teach to hate the western world and to kill us. So u can put on blinders and look the other way until it happens to some one in ur family or friends Or saddle up and fight this battle of civilizations.
Monks

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 10 2006, 10:32 AM) [snapback]300830[/snapback]</div>

That was the answer. Police and security actions directed at finding the terrorists. Not punish whole nations for the actions of a few people. After all, that is how this plot was averted. You may notice invading Iraq played no part whatsoever in thwarting this plot.

Are you not going to watch the link I posted before we really bury friends, family AND everyone else?

 

Give it up please.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(monkeypox @ Aug 10 2006, 10:52 AM) [snapback]300803[/snapback]</div>

Nice statement! Ok back on topic..


Alric Posted Today, 11:35 AM

That was the answer. Police and security actions directed at finding the terrorists. Not punish whole nations for the actions of a few people. After all, that is how this plot was averted. You may notice invading Iraq played no part whatsoever in thwarting this plot.

Are you not going to watch the link I posted before we really bury friends, family AND everyone else?

Isse we are trying to be deverted here, Im guessing they would sit and do nothing.... :huh:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 10 2006, 01:45 PM) [snapback]300927[/snapback]</div>

You're not getting an answer because it has already been given to you, repeatedly. Apparently you are incapable of comprehending the right answer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 10 2006, 08:24 AM) [snapback]300751[/snapback]</div>

We should go with your final solution. Kill all muslims.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 10 2006, 01:45 PM) [snapback]300927[/snapback]</div>

Alric posted the correct answer, why are you still trolling?

The problem with terrorist acts is that if you change your behaviour then the terrorists have already won.

Think of the reasons someone would want to kill others.

1) For the fun of it. These people are mentally unstable.

2) For revenge. Sometimes local people, usually lower class, who have been hurt by society in some way, often taken advantage of by the greed and selfishness of others. Sometimes foreigners who have been hurt by military actions or sanctions by our government.

3) To make a political or social statement. These people often disagree with the actions or behaviour of a government or peoples.

4) Anarchists. They thrive on chaos and revel in the world around them being out of control, it gives them a sense of advantage.

5) To make a mark in the world. These are like hackers, they crave attention and will perform antisocial acts rather than conform. Not too far from #1 above.

You state that you only will allow discussion of the ex post facto scenario, yet the only action there is to punish those responsible, which really only applies to cases 1, 4 and 5, a tiny fraction of the true terrorism issues in the world today (e.g. Timothy McVeigh).

What takes real guts is changing the scenario entirely by determining the root causes of hatred. Some examples and possible solutions are:

1) Poverty. Can be helped by implementing consistent and fair healthcare and public assistance programs. Sure, there are arguments against this, but as long as human nature includes taking advantage of others someone is going to get stepped on unless there are social controls in place, both to enable those in dire straights and to limit abuse from both those being serviced and those providing services.

2) Greed. It's amazing how our corporate and political systems are intertwined through lobbying and corruption to enable entire industries to take advantage of people. The loopholes and leeway granted to pharmaceutical, petroleum and insurance companies are embarassing, and are putting a huge strain on our citizens.

3) International hubris. The United States, for all its power and capability, shows incredible stupidity when it comes to understanding and dealing with other countries and cultures. We prop up dictatorships when it's expedient for us (remember Saddam Hussein?), and we devastate countries when we feel like it (remember Saddam Hussein?). We support repressive regimes like Saudi Arabia, and we ignore war and famine unless we stand to lose monetarily or politically. We try to impose our own beliefs and culture on others.

4) Political hubris. The Bush administration has lost all respect of the majority of the citizens of this country, mostly through their inability to place the citizens above political ambition. Even the reponse to terrorist acts is to play to our fears and make us more afraid and we thus become less rational in our discussion, which is a known psychological effect of fear, and is exactly why terrorists do what they do. In fact it could be argued that enhancing and inflating the risks of not going along with the politicians currently in power is itself an act of terrorism, cloaked in nationalism ("Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists" - GW Bush; "we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud" - Condoleezza Rice; "the British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa" - GW Bush; "[Hussein] had long-established ties with al Qaeda" - Dick Cheney).

I could go on and on, but we as a nation must rise above and address these issues. By evading laws and spying on our own citizens without cause we are lowering ourselves to the level of the terrorists. I happen to believe that we are far better than that. We must participate in the world community, not flout it. We should rebuild the United Nations and allow *every* nation to participate and be involved in discussions. We should obey our own laws, or open discussion as to why they should be changed.

Your own comment of "I am assuming by your response that you would do nothing in response to 6,000 dead American citizens?" presents a false choice; that there is a specific thing one might do as direct retribution is disingenuous at best, and completely avoids real discussion of the real issues.

 

We have a "premise" issue here. If you have the premise that the terrorists are "freedom fighters" (wanting homeland back), or "justice seekers" (wanting revenge for being treated badly, or "wanting something we can give" (like money, technology, etc) then you believe that WE (the US or the western world) can just DO something to stop the killing.

I, and many others, on the other hand, have the premise that the terrorists (the ISLAMO-FACISTS) simply want all non muslims DEAD or totally SUBJUGATED.

(Kind of like the martians on the movie Mars Attacks (worth watching BTW)

Substitute the word "paradigm" for "premise".

Based on this, the two types of people CANNOT possibly agree on the solution.