1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Did my fuel pump go?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by pmelc1, Jan 11, 2024.

  1. pmelc1

    pmelc1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2023
    35
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    My combimeter has been out for about 7 years (I finally have the part, just waiting for mechanic to be available) and I just estimate gas and speed mentally. As a result, I've run out of gas probably once a year since then. I'm somewhere around 200k miles, 2006 base model. Manufactured in Japan but bought it in the US. When it runs out of gas, the hybrid battery meter drops to 1 bar, and the orange light comes on the power button.

    I then have to do a whole 'ritual' to get it started: add 3+ gallons of gas, remove 12V battery leads and put them back either immediately or a few minutes later, sometimes jump the car, and sometimes put the car in neutral and roll it forward several feet especially on a flat surface and then turn it off and then. If I don't do at least two of these it doesn't start. The last step is rare but sometimes necessary. I figured that one out when I got it towed and it actually started on the tow truck bed when we got to the destination.

    I ran out once again recently and when I refilled the tank, it idled rough while recharging the battery and sounded like a potential fuel delivery issue. Chalked this up just to it running out and filled the tank up. About 20 minutes later, it happened again, but started up after combination of said ritual steps.

    A couple days later (today), I got the out-of-fuel symptoms when the tank was no less than 70-80% full. I removed the battery leads and put them back and it would start up, idle rough for about 5 seconds (sometimes feeding the battery, sometimes not), the 'problem' light would come on, orange light on power button;. Haven't had a chance to get the codes read yet. Walked home and considering getting car towed to mechanic tonight. Am I correct that the fuel pump has likely finally blown? I realized I abused it over the years.

    My understanding is Gen2 pumps cannot be purchased without the whole tank. Found some tank-pump assemblies at local junkyards averaging around $150 pulled and considering picking one up in morning.
     
    #1 pmelc1, Jan 11, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2024
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    9,220
    1,618
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    That's interesting I've run out of gas in my '09 Prius two or three times on purpose I had fuel in the car with me trying to determine how many pips would be completely stopping the car anyway the three times that I did this the red triangle came on The first time it happened I didn't realize I was out of gas and then I realized that the gas gauge was flashing this is years ago I literally poured a gallon of gas in the car got back in the car started the car put it in reverse to get out of where I was put it in forward stepped on the gas and the engine roared to life and off we went. The second time it happened I knew it was out of gas I had gas with me in the car I was running the car out of gas on purpose on a gas mileage run that put me at about 545 mi on that tanked it run out point so I could have gone like 5:30 and made it to gas. Again poured my little one gallon container that I normally use for two cycle fuel for my weed eater for that gas in the car again the same thing car instantly started up after I backed out no issue. I've not had to replace a tank fuel pump yet and I've got some cars that are well above 300 K running like a top.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,987
    49,523
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    maybe
     
    qmanqman likes this.
  4. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2021
    850
    316
    0
    Location:
    South Central PA, USA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    III
    And maybe not.

    What are the trouble codes?
     
    qmanqman likes this.
  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    11,106
    4,520
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    So I guess people saying that one gallon is not enough gas to get a Gen2 Prius going again after an empty tank is not what you've experienced?
     
  6. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    9,220
    1,618
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Not at all the two times I did this I actually three now I had a the weed eater can of gas what is that 2 gallons or less It's usually one and a half or something It might be two little tiny red can that you put oil in and put gas in the weed eater I had an extra one of those cans and I was doing some gas mileage runs to run the car out of gas see how many miles are on the car you know the drill and that's what I use in the Corollas and the Toyota Celica's with the electric fuel pump in the tank and all that so I figured Prius with one NZ got to be the same as those two vehicles dumped it in there tie my backed out through it and drive and stomped on it engine fired right up like nothing had happened and when I ran out of fuel if I'm not mistaken it put the red triangle on in my '09 The first time it happened I didn't realize I was out of fuel I knew I was at the flashing pip and I should be heading to fuel but I went home instead ran out pulling in the driveway and I was trying to figure out why in the hell do I have the red triangle on and I noticed when I put it back in drive and tried to shoot forward normally my engine would start and that wasn't happening and then I was like Aha.
     
  7. pmelc1

    pmelc1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2023
    35
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I've had trouble with 1-2 gallons, so usually up it to 3 to be safe.
     
    #7 pmelc1, Jan 11, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2024
    bisco likes this.
  8. pmelc1

    pmelc1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2023
    35
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I removed and tested the battery tonight and it was reading at 11.3 volts, which I know is terrible. As of a month or two ago it was normal range (13.6+ volts when in car and running).

    Granted, my jump box wasn't working and I probably attempted not less than 20 starts, so that ran it down a lot.

    It's an 84-month TrueStart battery from July 2021 so should be eligible for 60% warranty. If battery won't charge, going to swap it out and see if that solves the issue. Skeptical that it will though since battery seemed fine when I first stalled out. This has happened before; some electrical issue seems to be killing my batteries early but not sure what. Will check codes too and report back.
     
    #8 pmelc1, Jan 11, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2024
  9. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    9,220
    1,618
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    You've only got 13.6 volts when the car is readied. That actually seems a little on the low side Yes it's right at a volt above the 12 volts I get that but that seems a little low especially for an AGM battery but that's just me All of my four generation twos here The minute the car is ready We are looking at 14 2 to 14 5 generally speaking all the time and it's very similar on my alternated Corollas and Celica's and Supra's.
     
  10. pmelc1

    pmelc1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2023
    35
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I meant 13.6 volts or more, was coming up as 14.0-14.1 volts today on Dr. Prius app. With my plug-in charger at home I got it up to 12.6V, but green light wouldn't come on indicating full charge.

    Tried a few things today:
    1) Took 12V battery out and charged it at home. Got it up to 12.6V on charger, and runs at over 14V in car. So 12V battery does not appear to be issue, unless there's a problem in electrical system somewhere else.
    2) Checked hybrid battery status with Dr. Prius, everything looks normal.
    3) Took charged battery back to car and put it in. Car started and charged up hybrid battery from 1 bar to several, drove about a mile and then issue happened again. Started car up, idled rough a little, and got home.
    4) When I got home, I took it out for test drive in neighborhood. It ran fine for about 3 miles and then problem happened again, symptoms of no gas. This time I wasn't able to start it back up, the orange light stays on and it won't go into park or drive, only neutral. This happened yesterday also. It also happened when ran out of gas about 7 years ago, and I had to disconnect the battery and let it sit for several hours, and when I reconnected battery it started.

    I also ran BlueDriver scanner on car. Previously, I had a coolant path clog-up P1150 (recently replaced water pump and may need coolant flush) and catalytic converter efficiency code P0420 (original cat stolen, have aftermarket cat), which are unrelated.

    I have a new code P0354, Ignition Coil D Primary Control Circuit Open. I replaced all 4 coils in late 2022 I believe, and less than a year later I had 2 coil codes come in. I have a spare engine and swapped the 4 coils from that and codes went away. Wondering if this could be triggered by bad fuel delivery to engine.

    I also have 'Radar or Hybrid Control code' P0A0F Engine Failed to Start. Commonly reported fixes for this are:
    1) Reprogram ECM/PCM
    2) Clean throttle body
    3) Clean mass airflow sensor
    4) Replace fuel pump

    My suspicion is still bad fuel pump. Any thoughts?
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,987
    49,523
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    you're not testing the 12v correctly. check the voltage every morning before you first start the car. make sure it is holding the voltage reasonably, and not falling to far.
    there's also a load test, which is important because the resting voltage may test good, but it drops way down when powering up the car.
    the voltage with the car in ready is your inverter, not the battery.
     
  12. pmelc1

    pmelc1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2023
    35
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I took the 12V battery out of car again today and tested it when I got home (car broke down around the corner from my house), was reading at 12.6V.

    I've had a weird thing for a year-plus where I occasionally (once a week or so) get symptoms of a loose terminal and I have to shift the terminal (the positive which has the bulky red plastic thing on it; the fuse block cover) ever so slightly and I get contact. Hard to explain but it doesn't seem like I actually lost contact, it's like it just needs to be removed and replaced or just physically tapped. The battery posts are clean. Obviously I'm not an electrical expert by any means though. I don't know if that fuse block cover might need replacement or if that (or bad 12V battery in general) could cause the no-fuel-type symptoms / orange warning light.
     
    bisco likes this.
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,987
    49,523
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i wonder if the post could be loose inside the battery. wouldn't be the first time
     
  14. pmelc1

    pmelc1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2023
    35
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm assuming there's no way to get inside battery and it's all sealed. Think I should bring the battery back to dealer and say I'm having problems with it (which I am)? It will cost me $80-100 after prorated warranty, but it'll reset the clock on my battery / give me fresh one and help me troubleshoot issue. The battery dies all the time if car sits more than a day or two and it's cold, or sometimes for no apparent reason at all. Have you ever seen fuel pump failure / no-gas symptoms due to 12V issue?

    Edit: Just noticed that charger got my 12V up to full charge, which didn't happen yesterday (was reading like 95-99% but not 100%).
     
    #14 pmelc1, Jan 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2024
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,987
    49,523
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    not that i remember, but it is running on 12 volts, and there might be an ecu involved. even short term disruption might cause an issue, but when the car is ready, the inverter takes over for the battery.
    i'd say number one is to figure out why you have to move the terminal on the post for a connection. could it be anything inside the red box?
    no way to look inside the battery. maybe if you clamp a voltmeter to the posts and tried wiggling and twisting, you might see something.
     
  16. pmelc1

    pmelc1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2023
    35
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I replaced the battery and terminals fit much more tightly (were pretty worn down). Unfortunately that didn't solve the problem (will probably return it). Car started right up but failed in same way within a minute or two. I could hear/feel a light, irregular sputtering/vibration/rough idle from under car behind the drivers seat (that general area), which I'm assuming is where the tank is located, then the 'problem' message came up on screen, which is what happens when run out of fuel, then battery ran down to 1 bar, then orange light and no start.
     
  17. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    6,241
    5,938
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    There's an access plate under the rear seat where you could at least inspect the electrical plugs and connections. You could probably even do some troubleshooting and voltage checks. If memory serves me right, NJ is pretty horrible on cars due to the cold weather preps.
    Before I got into a fuel tank replacement, I would at least bust into that inspection cover.
     
  18. pmelc1

    pmelc1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2023
    35
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for the responses.

    It ended up being the fuel pump. Got the tank/pump assembly from a shop for $250 installed (part $150 labor $100; new part cost is $1500). It's basically a used parts warehouse / auto shop in one that has every conceivable for Priuses, mostly Gen 2 and Gen 3. They specialize solely on Priuses which apparently are big in the Georgian and Russian communities? If anyone is in Philly area PM me and I'll give you the name/address. They don't speak a lot of English (are from country of Georgia) but you can get message across and get prices quoted in advance.They also changed out my combination meter for $80 labor (bought part for $150 on Ebay). Since they specialize in Priuses they did that job absurdly fast (two guys in 30-35 minutes).

    Pump was high-mileage (200k) but got me going and doesn't seem to fail that often. I abused mine big-time by running out of gas probably 10-12+ times since combimeter went out in 2016 and maybe once or twice before that. Thrilled because was about $425 all-in including Ebay combimeter minus core charge, and probably would've been close to $4k at the dealer.
     
    #18 pmelc1, Jan 15, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2024
    Rph74, Brian1954 and bisco like this.