Diesel or E85

When it comes to smog-related emissions, E85 is the cleaner choice.

 

It is hard to believe you have never got caught behind a diesel at a traffic light. If you had, you would know intuitively that they are not environmentally friendly. They are exempt from smog controls because they would never pass. The exhuast is a carsinogen.

 

You can always look up greenhouse gas and EPA air pollution scores at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm.

You can read about what the air pollution scores mean at http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/about.htm and http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/detailedchart.pdf.

Do keep in mind, you'll take a significant mileage hit when running off E85 vs. gasoline. See http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ne...anol_test_1.htm for an example.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TomorrowMatters @ Mar 5 2007, 01:10 AM) [snapback]400195[/snapback]</div>

Biodiesel is even worse, there's actually a 10% increase in NOx levels (the chemical that contribute most to smog).

A diesel system can have equipment added to cleanse emissions to the SULEV level, but it isn't cheap.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TomorrowMatters @ Mar 5 2007, 12:21 AM) [snapback]400172[/snapback]</div>

First none of the "light-duty" trucks are available with diesels. To get a diesel you need to purchase a Silverado 2500, F250, or Ram 2500. These trucks are not included in CAFE or current emission requirements for light-duty vehicles and have very high emissions so you will not be doing the environment any favors by purchasing one. Also, in any of the trucks listed, you will be limited to B5 to keep the manufacturer's warranty.

If you really want to help the environment, why not just keep your current truck. Building a new vehicle creates a huge amount of pollution. It's only a 01 so it's almost new. Since you're most likely past the warranty, just run a few tanks of E85 and see what happens. From what I've read, most vehicles will run fine on E85. Ask around on the S-10 forums.

 

Just out of curiousity, does anyone have a good source that compares the yield of diesel vs. gasoline when refined? That is to say, how many gallons of useable fuel is produced from a barrel of oil when distilling diesel vs. distilling gasoline?
Then the next question is whats the highest ratio of bio (say soybean oil) that can be mixed with diesel vs. the E85 blend and the resulting MPG?
Many thanks.

 

Honestly, I would go diesel... I am a confessed enemy of the corn growers/ethanol lobby, I honestly don't believe in the claimed benefits of ethanol-based fuels; I'm even against E10... Certainly E85 is "cleaner" per unit, but only if you don't count all the extra emissions produced when growing the corn or whatever crop and the process of making the ethanol, not to mention the extra costs.. Then there's also the reality that even if you converted the world's entire agricultural output into ethanol, there still wouldn't be enough to fill the world's fuel demands, and then you've also cut significantly into the food supply.. In the end, E85 costs more, and produces lower mileage.. Diesel may be "dirtier", but is cheaper, has higher energy per volume, which translates to using less fuel and lower operating costs for the vehicle.. Plus, if you're considering a truck, you must need to carry loads and pull with it- I've driven gas vs diesel trucks pulling a 9-horse trailer, and there's no contest- diesel outperforms the gas engine every single time..

Most of these pollutant ratings you see don't take MPG into account- what is the real impact of using E85 vs. straight gasoline if E85 results in 25% poorer mileage? Are the emissions better than 25% lower? Then compare to diesel, which has upwards of 30% better MPG than gas- are its emissions worse than 30% increase? I think you really have to look at the whole picture when considering alternative fuels- just because a fuel is slightly lower in emissions doesn't count for much if you have to use a lot more of it than the original...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Mar 5 2007, 01:44 AM) [snapback]400177[/snapback]</div>

No. Not unless you fail to count how much pollution is necessary to create the grain fuel. And discount how much water/pumping/electricity to grow the grain fuel. It's the biggest GM scam on record. GM likes grain fuel so they can skew their mileage of their gas guzzlers. Diesel, on the other hand has more energy per gallon, compared to gas, which, unlike grain fuel has LESS energy per gallon than gas. The only reason diesel is less clean is because U.S. lobbiests keep forcing legislators to allow crappier refining standards, which ultimatly means the junk ultimatly ends up in the atmosphere. European standards for refining mean their diesel burns way clean. Ok, I'm off my soapbox now.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TomorrowMatters @ Mar 4 2007, 11:10 PM) [snapback]400195[/snapback]</div>

I am under the impression that any diesel can burn biodiesel, with the caveat that cold-weather starting can be a problem.

However, I agree with the above posters who say that diesel is filthy. I think E85 is better, if you can get it. Not sure how widely available it is.

Do you really need a truck? The best thing for the environment is not to use a private vehicle, or, if you need one, to use the smallest and cleanest one that meets your needs. If you really need a truck only a few times a year, it can be much more economical, and more environmental, to rent one on those few occasions, and drive a Prius the rest of the time. (Or an EV, if there was one you could actually buy.)

While diesel gets more miles per gallon, it also requires more crude oil to make a gallon of diesel than to make a gallon of gasoline. In the end, I think it's a wash as far as efficiency goes. Diesel seems to be the choice for larger engines, and gas for smaller ones. But that's only if you don't care about the filth spewed out by diesel engines.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TomorrowMatters @ Mar 5 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]400195[/snapback]</div>

There is no "conversion" required to run a new diesel engine on biodiesel. This is a common misunderstanding resulting from confusing "straight vegetable oil" (SVO) fuel and biodiesel. You can run a diesel engine on straight vegetable oil, but you need two fuel tanks to do it because you need to run diesel fuel, or biodiesel fuel at first to get the engine up to operating temperature before switching to the SVO fuel tank. The process is reversed when shutting down.

A diesel engine running on biodiesel is at least as clean as E85 and will give you better mileage and more power. You can switch from biodiesel to regular diesel if you can't locate a biodiesel fuel source during the course of a trip. You can run a mixture in any ratio. I cold weather, it's a good idea to add a little petrol diesel because biodiesel will gel at a higher temperature than petrol diesel. If you are really gung ho, you can make your own fuel like my partner does. We operate a Jetta TDI wagon and our oil stove on fuel Lyle makes in the garage. See Lyle's website: biolyle.com

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Angel Flight Pilot @ Mar 5 2007, 02:08 PM) [snapback]400417[/snapback]</div>

You also need to add a smidg of diesel to your french fry oil / corn / soy / what ever. Santa Barbara had fleet vehicle's bio fuel go south when they failed to do this. It was called mold. Diesel in the bio fuel prevents the mold from growing in it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Angel Flight Pilot @ Mar 5 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]400417[/snapback]</div>

A friend of mine in Fargo runs his Jetta on biodiesel, but he buys virgin biodiesel (i.e. not recycled french fry oil) because he does not have the time to devote to making his own.

But I am convinced that my Prius is cleaner and more efficient and is a better car overall than his Jetta.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill60546 @ Mar 5 2007, 06:23 AM) [snapback]400267[/snapback]</div>

http://www.api.org/classroom/tools/upload/oilfacts_rgb.pdf

One barrel of oil yields 19.4 gallons of gasoline and 10.5 gallons of distillate fuel oil which includes diesel.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 5 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]400298[/snapback]</div>

Are you sure about this? The yield on gasoline is 25%; ie. a single barrel of oil will produce 25% gasoline.

This fractional distillation process yields approximately 25% of straight-run gasoline from each barrel of crude oil. http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/514gasoline.html

Regarding the API info, now I'm really confused. If diesel only yields 10 gallons vs. gasoline's 19 gallons, roughly a 2:1 ratio, then it would take about twice as much oil to produce the same number of gallons. Then why is Europe so diesel friendly?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 5 2007, 07:37 AM) [snapback]400298[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill60546 @ Mar 6 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]401197[/snapback]</div>

No, I'm not sure, but that's what I've read: very similar in terms of miles per gallon of crude. Diesel engines last longer, however, and may require less service.

 

Well, perhaps I read too quickly, but approximately how many miles per year do you put on the truck? A 2001 should still be in fairly decent shape, that's a 4.3 litre V6? Most pickup trucks will gain about 1 MPG simply by changing the rear axle fluid to a good synthetic, at least my 1984 Ford F-150 did. You have the 4 speed auto?

I keep my 1984 Ford F-150 4x4 at my hobby farm as a general "work" truck, and in winter it has a snowplow for taking care of light snowfall. I put on about 200-500 km a year. My parents purchased the truck new in Canada, and that was the last year a Canadian made Ford half ton could be had with no emissions controls, as the 1985 came with fuel injection.

The emission decal states "Non Catalyst." The fuel fill is a wide mouth - no fuel filling problems there. It was intended for leaded gas, which you could easily find in Canada up until 1991 or so.

The factory cast iron intake manifold had a factory installed EGR block-off plate, no catalytic converter, no AIR pump, etc. To be sure, especially since I put on the Edelbrock intake and four barrel carb, that truck puts out plenty of emissions. But since a tank of gas usually lasts a year, does it really matter?

Say I sold that F-150, I know a few of the neighbors would love a rust-free and well looked after truck of that vintage. Fine, then what? To plow my yard and long driveway, do I fire up the diesel tractor for that? How about the 4-6 loads a summer of garbage I haul to the dump 12 km away?

By my thinking, it would create far more of an environmental impact to purchase a new pickup with all the emissions controls in place. To handle my Meyers plow, at the very least I'd probably have to special order a half ton with extra capacity front springs.

Since I already went through the effort years ago to put a locking differential in the front and rear axles, I'd have to repeat that all over again. I probably couldn't put a locking differential in a new front axle, as every new four wheel drive I've seen has some sort of automatic lock/unlock feature that isn't compatible with a locker. So much for snowplowing ...

So even if your pickup sits in the garage the vast majority of the time, like mine does at the hobby farm, that really isn't a bad thing.