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Do the Math

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by john1701a, Oct 30, 2006.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Over the years, those against Prius have used the EPA estimates of MPG as if they were actual expectations, rather than the ideal-condition comparison measure they were intended to be. That's just plain wrong, definitely not a sincere effort in any respect. But if they want to play the game that way... what the heck.

    Vue-Hybrid combined MPG estimate: 29
    Vue combined MPG estimate: 24
    Vue-Hybrid offers an estimated improvement of: 20.8%

    Prius combined MPG estimate: 55
    Corolla combined MPG estimate: 33
    Camry combined MPG estimate: 27
    Camry-Hybrid combined MPG estimate: 39

    Prius offers an estimated improvement over Corolla of: 66.7%
    Prius offers an estimated improvement over Camry of: 103.7%
    Camry-Hybrid offers an estimated improvement over Camry of: 44.4%

    The estimates clearly show at least twice the efficiency gain from the "full" hybrid technology over that version of "assist" hybrid. In other words, if Saturn/GM supporters are going to continue to push numbers from the EPA rather than what real-world data actually reveals, shouldn't we?

    Of course, we know quite well that the "full" hybrids thrive in real-world conditions, since that often includes lots of suburb and stop & slow driving. It's where we have a distinct advantage that the competition tries to avoid discussions about. So odds are we'll have to put up with the MPG estimates for a very long time still.

    * Note that all the non-hybrid combined estimate values listed above were from the smallest size engine available for that vehicle with an automatic transmission.
     
  2. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

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    Just because I feel like stirring things up a little bit this morning. Isn't the Civic an "assist" hybrid?

    Civic combined MPG estimate: 35
    Civic-Hybrid combined MPG estimate: 50
    Civic-Hybrid offers an estimated improvement over Civic of: 42.86%

    Personally, I don't care about this kind of thing, and this will probably be my only post in this thread. I have no interest in whether Toyota's technology is "better" than what's being offered by Honda, GM, Ford, etc. And I think the whole thing is rather silly.

    For me, if Jeep would put out a hybrid Liberty of any stripe, my wife & I would be on one like white on rice.

    Feel free to toast me to a crisp now. :p
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The point is to reveal the fact that all hybrids are not the same, that credit should be given based on actual merit rather than a label.

    And as you contributed, we can clearly see that the two "assist" design share little in common... quite different from the impression others lead you to believe.

    Put another way, use the grade (A, B, C, D, F) system instead of just calling anything that uses electricity a "hybrid" ...especially if it isn't any cleaner.
     
  4. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Oct 30 2006, 10:20 AM) [snapback]340580[/snapback]</div>
    Well, with the Civic you have to note that the hybrid comes with a smaller engine, unlike the Camry and Highlander (which I note someone has left out). :)

    What makes the GM system sort of impressive is the 2.4L Hybrid Vue gets 20% better mileage than the 2.2L Non hybrid. It's bigger, puts out more HP, and still delivers 20% better mileage. :)
     
  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 30 2006, 11:10 AM) [snapback]340601[/snapback]</div>
    Be careful where credit is being given tho. Variable Valve timing and other engine advancement improve things over a generation leap. For example, Camry (non hybrid) 3.5L V6 output more power and give begger mileage than the last generation 3.3L V6.
     
  6. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 30 2006, 10:10 AM) [snapback]340601[/snapback]</div>
    Keeping in mind that I know nothing about engines, I found the following at http://www.toyota.com/camry/specs.html

    Camry (4 Cyl): 2.4-liter DOHC 16-valve VVT-i 4-cylinder
    Camry Hybrid: 2.4-liter DOHC 16-valve VVT-i 4-cylinder

    That looks like the same size to me. But, like I said, I know nothing about engines.
     
  7. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Oct 30 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]340810[/snapback]</div>
    Whoops... I had meant Accord and Highlander. :(

    My bad.