Does it really cost more to build?

Guessing how much any car costs to build is just that--guessing. Auto company costs are proprietary.

Comparing the purchase price of various cars, and their total cost of ownership, including fuel costs, is much easier.

Before buying my Prius, I used a web calculator to determine the break even point, assuming various mileage and gas price amounts. If you're considering buying a hybrid vs. a comparable (and a Mustang GT is not comparable) conventional car purely to save money, it's not going to "compute."

 

The search term you want is "dust to dust". Be aware that there were many bogus articles about dust to dust costs, so take them with a grain of salt until you verify the sources.

A Prius costs more to build than a comparably sized normal car. The difference isn't huge, but you do have the two electric motors, the HV battery, and all of the control electronics. On the other hand, you don't have a normal transmission.

A couple of years ago one of the better consumer magazines did a look at the overall cost of owning a Prius verses a normal car. At the time, given the price of the Prius, resale, maintenance, and fuel costs, it took somewhere between two to five years to break even with the "hybrid premium".

Tom

 

A major cost component of the Prius is the battery. I would not expect the assembly cost to build the Prius to be significantly different than any other compact/mid-size car assembled in Japan. But the components, such as the traction battery in the hybrid, will up the cost compared to a comperable non-hybrid vehicle.

As far as "operating costs". Well, a lot depends on your driving habits. For me, I expect to save (with current gas prices) about $2K in gas per year - when I compare it to my former car, which got significantly lower mpg's, and, required PREMIUM gas. Everything else being equal, I should yield about $10K savings in gas over a 5 year period...and that savings would more than offset the lower cost for a non-hybrid vehicle. For me, I expect that after 4-5 years, I will recoup the price difference between the Prius, and a car of similar size, but is cheaper because it doesn't have hybrid technology. Oh, and I expect (based on all the posts on this site), that I will get (a minimum) of 10 years out of my battery, and maybe longer. After 10 years, the technology will have changed enough that I probably will opt for the newer technology/car, so I'm not worried about the replacement cost for a new battery.

 

I've owned a brand new Mustang GT before (1994) which cost about 25K USD and its "life" was about 4 1/2 years and 70K miles before it developed a series of problems, including severe transmission failure, which were too expensive to justify keeping the car.

My 2010 Prius cost about 23K USD (16 years later!), has more room, uses less fuel, has less expensive and longer lasting tires, and I fully expect it to last longer than 4 1/2 years.

Warning: This individual anecdote is no substitute for a systematic survey of life time vehicle costs. It still holds more sway on MY decision making than a blind assertion by a coworker.

 

I think those break even numbers are low. For example, if you compare a Camry vs. a Camry hybrid (on fuel cost only--who knows what the other costs would be), it would take 7 - 12 years to break even (depending on non-hybrid model compared to, and given a cursory review of the Toyota site, I'm not sure which model is an apples-to-apples), which is what I recall to be the case when I did the calculation on various cars before buying my Prius (I also compared the Fusion models). You're not buying a hybrid to save money (i.e. total cost of ownership).

 

I forgot the exact time but Prius rolls out of the assembly line about the same time as a non-hybrid Corolla or Camry.

There is a misconception that it takes the power of a f-bomb to make the 99 lbs HV battery pack.

 

To those posters who are comparing a new Prius to their previous cars (Mustang GTs, etc.) that got much lower MPG--but are entirely different cars, in terms of performance and/or luxury--that's an apples-to-oranges comparison. You need to compare comparable cars.

As an extreme, why not see how much money you'd save having a Prius (@50 MPG) vs. a Lamborghini (@under 10 MPG)? You'd save a lot in fuel cost--not to mention purchase price. But they're totally different cars. That's why the fairest comparison is between a conventional and hybrid version of the same model (Camry, Fusion, etc.).

 

Playing devil's advocate...the assembly line time doesn't take into account the assembly time/cost of the components. On an apples-to-apples basis, I have to believe that for comparable trim levels of a Camry or Fusion, for example, the hybrid models cost quite a bit more, given the additional components & technology involved.

 

Well the comparison of the Mustang GT to the Prius is the very basis for this thread. I admit it is apples to oranges, but that is the proposition put forth by the original poster.

 

It does cost more to build. But the average mid size car gets what myabe around 27 mpg? so over a life of 150 thousand miles and useing 3$ a gallon, the prius will save a person $7666 in gas. If gas goes to $4 a gallon over the next ten years your talking over $10,000.

So my prius cost me 23,500 minus $7,666 i could have spent almost 16k on a car, and it would cost the same over the life.

It really depends on how you look at it, but I'm willing to pay extra for one of the most reliable cars ever made.

 

Near as I can tell:

• $17,300 - sale price of 2003 Prius, 49k miles, in 2005
• $24,250 - sale price of 2010 Prius, 3 miles, in 2009

Take a copy of your 'bill of sale,' lay it in front of the skeptic, in public, and say,

"Here is mine, mutherf*cker, where is yours?"
OR
Look them straight in the eye and say, "I don't build them, I buy them."
​

The cost of build is like calculating the angels dancing on the head of a pin. Go "in your face" and have some fun, and lay down:

"Here is my cost for xxx miles. Where is yours?"
OR
Ask them "What day of the month is it? I need to fill-up every 3-4 weeks."
​

So they'll retreat to "Well you'll have to replace that battery ..." and lay down this:

250,000 miles and $1,700:

"Have you ever gotten 250,000 miles from a car?"
OR
"No problem, I'll sell it before then, in 10 years."
​

The best defense is a strong offense . . . go in their face and in public.

Bob Wilson

ps. I had someone come by at work and apologize because they bought a "Seneca." Heck, I didn't even know they were shopping. <GRINS>

 

Well first I think you have to consider that the Mustang is a Ford product, so his maintenance/repair costs are going to be huge over the long term. If you figure in his replacement brake discs/pads, engine rebuilds, timing belts, alternators, catalytic converters, tires, clutches, etc., I think his lifetime costs will be MUCH higher than yours.

 

Did it cost more to design? You would have to guess the answer is yes.

Does Toyota have a 10 year design lead in hybrids? If so, then R&D gives a big pay back. Manufacturing is just one part of the equation.

An then there is risk. Obviously Toyota took a big risk and now has to do the damage control.

My guess is that if you asked a Toyota executive, they would say their hybrids are losing money for them, but have potential.

 

True, but they weren't comparing a Camry to a hybrid Camry. At the time the study was done, the Prius retained an insanely good resale value. This significantly shortened the payback period. That would not be the case in today's market.

Finding an apples to apples comparison for the Prius verses a non-hybrid is difficult. This is generally where most of the published comparisons fail miserably. Typically it gets compared with cars much smaller and cheaper, having fewer creature comforts and gee-whiz accessories.

Tom

 

When gas prices went to $4/gallon, I realized that for the time & distance a car stays in my household, the fuel cost of a non-hybrid would exceed its initial purchase price.

Of course, I bought the hybrid while fuel prices were much lower. But gas is north of $3 again, and climbing.

 

According to the DOE cost analysis of the both the Camry and Prius hybrid power train, the incremental component cost is ~$3000 compared to a similar gas only power train.

 

Completely disagree.

I've worked the numbers for my situation, and will recoup the higher cost of the G3 (with respect to a similar, but non-hybrid car) within 4-5 years...and that assumes gas prices remain where they are right now...and we know for fact that won't happen, they will be going up.

Oh, and I'm not even factoring in the high re-sale value of the Prius. I'm simply comparing what my annual gas savings would be, and then determine how many years it would be before I would have saved/recouped the difference between the Prius, and some other mid-sized car. That period (for me) comes out to be between 4-5 years.