Dubious Polk study: "only 35% of hybrid vehicle owners choose to purchase a hybrid again..."

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by UsedToLoveCars, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    So this survey is surveying people who bought a 2011 hybrid and what car they owned before?
     
  2. samlal

    samlal New Member

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    This article is also being discussed on slashdot with a lot on misinformation floating around.

    There is a lot of criticism of Hybrid cars from Honda Civic owners due to their battery issues. The responses there create an impression that the battery & transmission issues are there for all hybrids.

    Most people do not realize these issues were not faced by Prius owners.
     
  3. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Sigh... I've been so busy I haven't had time to chime in nor read the story in great detail (beyond me seeing it earlier this afternoon).

    I agree the study seems dubious and is totally counter to what CR found about Priuses (in terms of owner satisfaction) year after year. I fear it will just be more fodder for the irrational anti-hybrid folks. As for misinformation, I'm not surprised. I see it in so many non-hybrid car message boards. :rolleyes: Sadly, I don't have the time to try to attempt to set the record straight everywhere.

    As I've said it before, if my Prius were suddenly totaled or stolen, it'd almost certainly be replaced by a Gen 3 Prius or '12 HyCam. It's so annoying to drive non-hybrid ICEVs w/the ICE uselessly idling away when stopped and knowing that ALL braking energy is being lost as heat and brake dust.
     
  4. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    As a new Prius owner who's drunk the Kool-Aid, I have to say hyrid owners are bit...um...under the influence.

    I knew going in that I was not going to make back the fuel savings for the life time of the car (3-7 years). Hybrid owners are a bit faith based in refusing to believe this fact. One doesn't really buy a hybrid ultra high mileage car to save money on fuel. People buy it for what I call "political" reasons, promoting technology, less pollution, less oil use. They don't want to admit it and want to be able to sell their decision as "hard headed money savings".

    High mileage conventional cars like Corolla's or Focus are where the money is on money saving/fuel saving combo.

    Love my Prius. It is my second hybrid going from Ford Escape Hybrid (30 mpg/AWD) to a Prius 3/3 (55 mpg/FWD) so I guess I am the 40% that went from hybrid to hybrid but I can believe the stats of the study.

    Interesting though is the fact of the high resale value of the hybrids where there seems to be a big demand on the used car market. I got a great deal selling my Escape Hybrid and, in looking to upgrade to Prius3/4, the dealer said he could move my three week old "used Prius" quickly and get a premium for it.
     
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I'll be happy to take that car off your hands in 3-7 years. No charge, right ? After all, the car's life is over.
     
  6. bugly64

    bugly64 Junior Member

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    I bought my Hybrid car used for the express reason of saving money on fuel. I do save money on fuel as a matter of fact. I paid $14K for a 08 base model with 70K miles on it and I average over 49 mpg. I realize if I bought it new it would take longer to get a return on my money. But, and it's a big but, do ppl who buy non-hybrid cars have to show a return on there purchase? I would definitely purchase another Prius especially if the V came with 7 seats in the U.S. Again I would a few years and get it used. I don't like being lumped with philosophical groups because I like buying less gas or spending less.
     
  7. rpatterman

    rpatterman Thinking Progressive

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    I have a 2004 Prius. There is no doubt if I replaced it, it would be with another Prius, PIP or EV. But why would I replace it? It only has 95,000 miles and my mechanic says it runs like its brand new.
    Other than replacing the damn headlights and tires, its all original.

    I guess I'm one of those that bought it for "political?" reasons rather than for cash flow reasons:rolleyes:. I wanted to use less! Gas and other resources. For that reason I'm guessing I'll drive it another 5-10 years. Should be a lot of good options then! But I'm sure I will NOT replace it with a vehicle that runs a gasoline engine at stoplights:eek:.

    BTW, since I've had my Prius, I have replaced my secondary (work) vehicle twice. So I guess I'm one of those Hybrid owners that bought a non-hybrid!
     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Yet you can acknowledge and respect those same groups that put their money at risk to prove the technology and bring it up to volumes that allow people like you to save money by jumping on the bandwagon, yes ?
     
  9. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Residual value has nothing to do with the Return on Investment calc's for the premium paid for a hybrid and getting it back in fuel savings. Non-hybrids have good residual value also. In fact, as you get near the end of the hybrid parts warranty, the non-hybrid will have higher value.

    If you pay $4K premium for a hybrid. You need to recoup $4K in fuel savings to pay for it. Average driver that is 7 years which is also when the average driver gets a new car.

    The numbers on this are hard facts.

    I don't lie to myself about it. I drive the Prius, as I did my previous Escape Hybrid, for other reasons, the civic duty reasons.

    People likely bail on the hybrid's because of bad performance and dorky looks. I think the 2012 Prius changes that with both looks and the POWER button.
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Then if I promised to buy your car in one year for twice the amount you paid for your car, you would ignore my offer because your ROI is unchanged ?
     
  11. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Return on Investment of added cost of hybrid vs. savings on fuel remains the same. About 7 years for average driver.

    These are hard numbers akin to heliocentric vs. geocentric. Faith is fun but don't bank on it.
     
  12. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Feel free to answer 'yes' or 'no'. I'll repost the question
     
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    There isn't any return on investment when it comes to a hybrid, the question really is how much you lose. The TCO is depreciation + interest + insurance + maintenance + gas. The big factor in the more expensive hybrid is depreciation, interest, and insurance. If you can sell the car for more than you recoup some of that up front cost, so yes ROI or really TCO is highly dependent on resale value.

    A hybrid civic has depreciated more than an ice civic. For the prius small numbers compared to the total market skew the resale value higher, but sales jumped in 2005, so this higher resale value is starting to come down as used 2005, '06, and '07s hit the market.

    If someone tells you that they will buy your hybrid in a year at double the price, odds are they are not honest. If they sign an enforceable contract then you will get positive ROI.

    If you don't care about oil shortages, or pollution, or engine off, or the other hybrid features then spending the extra money on a hybrid is a poor investment. But if you do value these other things, then it is a different matter. Saving money is a poor reason to buy a hybrid.
     
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    If you believe the lifetime of a car is only a brief 3-7 years, you are the one under the influence. And this explains your other bogus analyses.

    The other daily driver in my household is 23 years old, the spare & snow car is 15. The previous two cars were disposed of at 13 (a lemon) and 23. We were the original buyers of all of them.

    I know you state that the average buyer keeps a car for only seven years, but your statements have not allowed of anyone economizing by keeping them longer. That viewpoint is just whacked.
     
  15. Keiichi

    Keiichi Active Member

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    I think I liken their model to what the 'ideal' car lifetime. Automakers and dealers will push for an earlier turn over as it means moving their inventory. Owners, on the other hand, are about how long they can hold onto the vehicle for as much as they can. Hell, I owned one car for 15 years before I gave up on it for my new car, but only after having the Radiator fans die, so I didn't want to sink more money into a car that has had, in one year's time, needing a new battery, needing the windshield fixed for two small rock cracks and a sun visor on the driver's side no longer working that I had to take it off in order to drive.

    All in all, I made the most out of the car and took reasonably fair care of it with the exception of the windshield part. I will say that either way, I would have ended up getting a new car either sooner or later. The savings I see, long term, would be just cutting down on the gas bill with the hybrid, but I don't, realistically, believe I would be making a recoup on the car itself, just easing off on the fuel costs.
     
  16. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Compared to the 1% of Ford Excursion owners that purchase another Ford Excursion?

    With gasoline over $4/gallon and rumors of it headed to $5/gallon .... :)
     
  17. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    i think this is correct
    "only 35% of hybrid vehicle owners choose to purchase a hybrid again"
    because most of them will go for a full EV after years or a plugin ofcourse
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I buy and keep cars until they are *really* at their end of life, like Fuzzy.

    I buy reliable brands, and maintain the cars with an eye towards 250 - 400k miles. Not only do I think this is the smart money way to handle car ownership, it makes my arithmetic easier :p

    Prius (55 mpg): 325,000 miles * 0.018181818 gpm = 7272.727273 gallons
    At $4/gallon in today's money, this fuel cost is $29090.91

    I figure the hybrid premium at $4000, so any alternative car that costs more than 25090.91 in fuel is a money loser, and of course pollutes more, harms the US with more exported petro-dollars, and forces us all to spend more on oil resource control.

    Just to break-even in my pocket, the alternative car has to manage 51.8115 mpg.

    So you see, folks who 'think' that the Prius costs them money in the pocket either 1. cannot perform arithmetic; or 2, have priorities that trump money, environment, and community. Or both.
     
  19. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Hybrid loyalty study an outrageous lie? For morons only? | Hybridcarblog
     
  20. dipper

    dipper Senior Member

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    For the mileage driven, I assume this would take 15 years? Maybe have to do a battery pack change in that math.

    And you might want to subtract the cost to replacing brake pads, rotors and install cost. Say $500/50k miles. That adds up quick as savings too.
     
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