Featured E15 May be Coming to a station near you

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by wjtracy, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    10,745
    3,227
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Understanding The Debate Over Ethanol And Smog – R-Squared Energy

    Apparently Pres. Trump is supporting farm state request to allow E15 sales year round. It will apparently not be mandated, but allowed to be sold. Ethanol increases evaporative emissions to some extent, for the reasons described in the article. So that is one sticking point.
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,614
    4,379
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    That is a non-issue for PZEV rated vehicles, like Prius, which directly address evaporative emissions.
     
    Rmay635703 and Starship16 like this.
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    15,760
    5,716
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    true .... bur for the >90% of SUV'S, trucks & cars that aren't ..... this isn't great ..... unless you're a farmer that gets to reduce inventory via greater supply exhausting.... turning food into fuel for our RV'S, etc. I could laugh almost, if it wasn't so pathetically bizarre.
    .
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,614
    4,379
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Thankfully, over-generalizations like that aren't taken seriously everywhere. In Minnesota, we have strived to keep it local and seek out energy for production that would otherwise be wasted.
     
  5. douglasjre

    douglasjre Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    405
    168
    0
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    How much cheaper is it?
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    14,292
    6,233
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The vast majority of ethanol made in the US uses corn or other potential food crops.
     
    LasVegasaurusRex likes this.
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    15,760
    5,716
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    this is not a generalization much less, an over-generalization;

    AAA warns E15 gasoline could cause car damage

    So ... how much does E15 cost? Maybe it turns on whether you're talking long-term or just at the tank.
    .
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,614
    4,379
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    An article from 6 years ago that doesn't have supporting confirms is what ?
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    15,760
    5,716
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    look it up .... there are 2018 articles too
    & remember - most cars are not newer than the last 6 years.
    .
     
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,614
    4,379
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I already did. There's a lot of anti-ethanol propaganda out there proven false by our local research.

    That's why I tend to avoid the topic. It's simply not listening to the rhetoric.
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    15,760
    5,716
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Didn't look very hard apparently. Off the top, here's one that's just one year old, will that do it?
    E15 ethanol-blend gas sales threatened by label change
    Of course, if you just don't want to believe it, & no matter how many oodles of articles that can be posted - I suppose there's still some way to give them the old poo poo treatment
    remember - often is the case that local research knows what side of the bread that the butter is on. There was a time when the tobacco industry's 'health experts' told us that smoking is no big deal.
    There are politics behind more corn in our fuel. And naturally the corn States absolutely love more corn in fuel. Here's the reason why;
    Running on Corn: Why Ethanol Is Bad for Your Car
    .
     
    #11 hill, Aug 28, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
    LasVegasaurusRex likes this.
  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    10,745
    3,227
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I am still confused if the above article is correct about the year round E15 -
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    15,760
    5,716
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    iduno - but the ethanol mixtures have been controversial for decades. Worst example was when the corn fuel lobby, helped by the auto lobby (gm in particular back then) gamed the system, by legally rigging their epa's.
    You see, the MPG's were only based off how much GAS is use per gallon, not the ethanol part. So imagine - ethanol actually decreases mileage, yet if you only count 85%-90% of the gasoline part towards how far you go per full gallon, you get to claim higher fuel economy - even though the actual mileage is worse when you add ethanol - because it contains less energy than gas. It really rigged the big SUV land barges. Not that it mattered, because few of the vehicles actually certified for ethanol actually used it, because of the worse mileage.
    .
     
  14. dipper

    dipper Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    1,230
    247
    0
    Maybe Trump wants Mexicans to get less affordable food? Burn it up instead of letting Mexicans eat them? FYI... not a racist remark, just that there were a lot of stories of corn prices sky rocketed and Mexicans complained about it when we went ethanol crazy.

    And guess that fixes the healthcare problem too. Less corn syrup to go into soda.
     
    douglasjre likes this.
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    22,796
    12,702
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL with 2014 BMW i3-REx
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I ran two Prius, 03 and 10, on E85 even though both threw a code. Experimentation verified that E50 works perfectly fine without a code.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    14,292
    6,233
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Running some test tanks isn't the same as running it for years.
    Any potential damage will be the result of chronic exposure of the fuel system materials to ethanol.
     
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,614
    4,379
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Claims of potential damage without anything of substance to support it is spreading FUD.
     
    douglasjre likes this.
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    15,760
    5,716
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Is a picture worth a thousand words?
    [​IMG]

    There are reams of articles. They can be discounted all day long. What's the purpose, when some fuel experts show evidence of the corrosive nature, and explain how and why a car needs to be labeled flex-fuel, and not just pour the stuff inside.
    No one is saying that ethanol is harmful for all cars, it's just important for potential users to understand that one really need to know whether or not it's okay. Otherwise, why would there need to be a label "flex fuel" that the various manufacturers tack onto vehicles?
    The Ethanol Effect: Understanding Ethanol & What You Can Do to Protect Your Ride During Storage - OnAllCylinders

    .
     
    LasVegasaurusRex likes this.
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,614
    4,379
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Like I already started... propaganda.

    Same old FUD we saw with the rollout of E10.
     
    douglasjre and Rmay635703 like this.
  20. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    1,283
    816
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    I ran a 98 Buick Lesabre over 100000 miles on e20-e60 until I traded it off.

    Can’t say I remember any fuel related issues,

    Frank Lee on ecomodder has gone a few steps further than me.

    General consensus is that the affect of pure ethanol on rubber and fuel system components is the same as e10, in other words, if it will fail on e85 it would fail on e10 as well.

    For me, I was using e15 back in 2001,
    only recently has it come back.
    in my Volt e15 is 10 cents a gallon cheaper and gives better fuel economy than regular
    Win win and the manual specifically lists e15
     
    dubit and douglasjre like this.
Loading...