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Echo vs NHW11 GPH(?)

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I measured a 2001, 1.5L Echo, warmed up, burning 0.15 GPH at ~700-800 rpm.

    I thought I had the data handy but no luck. Anyone have idle (aka., in "N") warmed up 1.5L data?

    I can generate it tonight but was wondering if anyone else has it handy.

    Thanks,
    Bob Wilson
     
  2. justkyle

    justkyle New Member

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    I'd get it for you, but I'm currently at work.

    Sorry.

    The echo really does look similar to the 1st generation prius. Are any parts interchangeable?
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Not really. The engine block is the same but the Toyota papers indicate the cams and pistons are different. There may be some similar parts but they are not going to be major parts.

    So last night, I measured with the Prius:
    ~0.26 lb/min - airflow
    15.6 lb/hr - airflow
    1.06 lb/hr - fuel flow rate (14.7 ratio)
    0.17 gal/hr - gasoline 8.25 lbs/gallon
    This is a surprising result although the values are fairly close:
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4
    0 gal/hr rpm model
    1 0.15 ~700 2001 Echo 1.5L
    2 0.17 ~900 2003 Prius 1.5L
    3 113% 129% ratio Prius/Echo
    Echo measured with ScanGauge, Prius measured with Auto Enginuity.

    The difference is small and probably more likely related to the idle rpm. We know the Prius uses an Atkinson cycle and the Echo an Otto but putting both engines under a constant load would have been difficult without a rolling dynamometer. But engine idle is fairly easy to reproduce on both vehicles and fuel consumption measured.

    The differences are so small that it would take very careful testing to find the difference between an Atkinson cycle at idle versus an Otto cycle. It would require 'tweaking' the engine idle on the Echo up to 900 rpm to match the Prius. But there was no easy way to normalize with the transaxle loads because the test Echo had a standard, automatic transaxle with a hydrodynamic coupling to the engine.

    Thanks,
    Bob Wilson
     
  4. justkyle

    justkyle New Member

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    I was only interested in non-major parts :)

    Specifically, I am wondering if it was an ashtray or a cupholder that is missing out of the back side of the center console.
    Also, wasn't too sure (can never spot an echo standing still) if the (for want of a better term) A pillar applique plastic doohickeys are on both models, and if they are interchangeable. I need one, but I don't remember which side.

    Put $9 in it last night, and it got me a half-tank. YAY!

    Previous car took $10 a day in gas before it blew up.
     
  5. justkyle

    justkyle New Member

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    As a psuedo-scientist, and seat-of-the-pants engineer myself, I find myself (and my geekier side) intrigued by these findings. I used to have access to a dynamometer, but I no longer do. I do remember testing the second generation units on it, and also some sports cars, but all of that data has been some years gone by and lost now.

    So, it almost sounds like perhaps Toyo should have chosen an Otto instead of the Atkins in terms of fuel consumption at idle, but perhaps they were more concerned with pushing the vehicle on down the road?

    It would be interesting to find out how many hybrids were purchased as fleet vehicles. I saw an AT&T one (2nd generation) the other day, and a Vectren one (also second generation) last week when I first started lurking in this group.

    I can't imagine too many of the 1st generation did, though I may have seen one around these parts and not even realize it, thinking it was just the diminutive echo instead.