Edmunds Drives a 99% Production Leaf

DeadPhish,

Thanks for the post. It's good to see the "real world" scenario range
numbers. The 47% reduction scenario is understandable, but sobering
nonetheless.

Unfortunately, these numbers are going to be misused by the
if-EVs-aren't-good-for-ME-than-they're-no-good-for-anybody crowd.

I expect lots of comments along the lines of,
"See, I told you so, EV's will never work."

Poor misguided souls ... things are changing rapidly on many fronts:

Japanese Firm Lets EVs Refill Faster Than a Gas Car - All Cars Electric

 

First ~ For those keeping up with EV's - the thread will be easier to find with the other Nissan/EV posts if it's put there.

Second ~ Who's the guy from Top Gear? Jeromy something? He ran a Prius at top speed to prove that a BMW gets better mpg's traveling at over 100mph ... totally irrelevant ... just like when I get over 70mpg's per tank full. Now Edmunds throws in their hat "proving" the Leaf won't get over 100 miles per fill. (sigh) Big deal ... did anyone really think it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get LESS than stated range? Um ... what car IS that not possible in?!?

The Leaf will go into production - not withstanding Edmunds over stating the obvious. Then, the hyper mile'ers will get a hold of it - maybe get 175 miles in it. Then, some will add batteries at go over 250 in it. ok ...

 

I'm sure many people can make great use of a BEV for daily driving.

I wonder what the battery warranty and replacement costs are though.

I found out today, my 2009 Prius traction battery, when replaced would only come with a 1 year warranty. That's a bit scary. If I happen to need one at 11 years, my car is in great shape, but only have 1 year warranty on a $3.x k battery.

Could probably use lemon law if a 16 month old, $3,500 Prius battery happened to give out.

 

Even if it did only get 47 miles - I think most people can make it to work and back in 47 miles.

... and in perfect conditions, even I could make it to work and back (48mi x 2 = 96mi) on one charge!

.

 

In my experience, the range of all vehicles gets cut in half in heavy stop & go traffic with the heat or AC on... the Leaf is no different.

My Prius - 45 mpg to 25 mpg in those conditions.
My Subaru - 25 mpg to 14 mpg in those conditions.

You only notice on the Leaf because it has a shorter range than conventional vehicles.

 

47 miles at just 6 mph average speed equals 8 hours in traffic.

I doubt many people would have to drive for 8 hours solid under those conditions.

 

Yeah, probably. When I lived in CA, my commute was ~25 miles, each way. Fortunately, I was living in a house where I could charge and I saw an EV charging station at my work (well, at the main location until I was moved to another office). I have no idea if the station worked as I don't think I ever saw an EV there.

The interior reminds me a lot of a bit of 02 Nissan Maxima I guess because mine had the same interior color. My mom's 07 NAH also has a similar interior color.

I don't recall the article saying what's up w/the bubbling display in the pictures. It looks like perhaps a defect or problem that developed over time, possibly due to heat.

 

You could buy the battery for a lot less than $3k, and if the first battery lasted 11 years why would you expect the second one to only last one year?

It'll be the same with these EV's, if Nisaan say a new battery is $10k, then you'll be able to buy a remanufactured one for $3k.

 

That's a good point.

You really have
kWhpm for travel: speed, temperature, wind, terrain
kWhph for comfort: A/C, heat

Then you have to calculate it for the different parts of a journey.

It's very important to know for EV buyers.

I expect to see some apps appear.

 

Even allowing for conversion from US mpg to UK mpg I think your Prius figure at 25 mpg is low. I spend 10 hours a day in heavy traffic with the a/c blasting away (ok its not as hot here) and I still get a minimum of about 45 uk mpg (38 US??) over the day.

I do hear what you're saying though and EV's are no different to normal petrol cars. Everybody reads the mpg sticker on the new car in the showroom and takes it with a pinch of salt knowing this will be reduced in real world conditions.

Why should the Leaf EV be any different, though I fear peoples expectations may be!

 

Search "prius battery" on Ebay. On any given day you can find one for $400 or so.

 

Not too bad at all. Imagine charging stations on the freeway when you are stuck in traffic

 

Mike, you post on priuschat? I never knew :rockon:

 

While I am sure you COULD find someone who would take your $3,500, full retail on a HV battery is $2295 and I can get you an HV battery with a 1 year warranty for $1375. (add $282 to install it)

 

Running out of charge in the HOV lane will not be pretty.

 

Does your battery drain to the purple in your conditions? If not, I suspect that your AC isn't blasting and your driving is more go than stop. How many miles do you drive a day?

Whenever I get stuck in Los Angeles traffic in summer (90F+), I'll get a MFD full of 25mpg bars. The first couple bars after getting stuck in traffic are usually 100mpg because the car uses the battery for propulsion, but once the battery drains and the engine starts kicking in to charge, the mpg drops like a rock.

Of course - even after being stuck in this type of traffic for an hour and generally hating life because you've only moved 6 miles, your average fuel hasn't actually dropped that much because 25mpg over 6 miles only burned a quarter gallon of fuel and that extra quarter gallon of fuel you burned doesn't affect the rest of the tank much.

The other situation I see the Prius hurt in is your typical suburban medium speed traffic where the speed limit is 45-55mph but with traffic lights spaced just far enough that you have to stop right after you get up to speed if you miss the light. Do this and fuel economy also drops to 25mpg, but again - this doesn't normally happen for more than a couple miles so the effect on the entire tank isn't much.

 

Here are all the scenarios Nissan has described.

If you heavily use AC/heater your range is below 70. Otherwise it is above 100.

 

Hi All,

This is why EV's should have Natural Gas heaters. We often get the real slow stop-and-go traffic conditions when the weather gets down below 5 F for the drive home. The few times my Prius heater has not been sufficient is during these times. The 2010 Prius may be better , as it has the exhaust heat recovery, but then again, it has allot more engine mass to heat up too.

There are also NG powered AC systems too. That might make a good synergy for the 100 F end of the operating spectrum as well.

As far as gas cars being much better though - well we end up dodging abandoned, apparently out-of-gas cars on the interstate in these conditions all the time. Right there in the middle lane!

That said - the Leaf looks like THE car for moderate climate metropolitan area commuters. San Fran/LA/San Diego, Ft Worth/Dallas/Austin, Memphis, Atlanta/Carolinas/North Florida will have zillions of these cars in ten years.

 

i have 14 miles r/t m-f and i can plug in at work. weekends, i either stay home or drive locally. for long trips, i could use my wife's car or we would be together. but i wonder if an ev would be any more efficient for this type of use than a phev with 14 mile range.