Erosion of Powers separation by the shrub

Signing statements have no legal weight, they are merely for review by the Supreme Court later when the bill, or the executive branches actions are challenged in court.

The President could write this if he wanted " I am signing this bill today but I intend to not allow the executive branch to enforce any aspect of the law because this bill is in violation of the Constitution."

What does this statement mean? Nothing. You could not bring a lawsuit to enforce a law that the executive "said" it wasn't going to enforce, you could only bring a lawsuit if the executive "actually"d didn't enforce the law.

In short: Signing statements worthless
Actions: Priceless

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Jul 25 2006, 04:52 PM) [snapback]292264[/snapback]</div>

By this I take it you approve of the "message" the signing statements have sent: "Congress, your work is pointless; I thumb my nose at your efforts."

If the bills submitted for signature are so odious compliance would be "unconstitutional," why sign them? Signing them is overt approval; a quiet signing statement later claiming exemption is admitting the approval was a fraud.

Why do you find both the message and the fraud commendable? Congress, both houses of it, are on Bush's side: thumbing his nose at his allies like that will certainly alienate them more deeply than it will the Democrats, who expect Bush to treat them with that degree of disrespect and disdain. Yet you find shooting your own foot like that laudable. Why?

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

Wikipedia has a pretty good treatment of this, including its use since James Monroe, and the rise in its use by all Presidents since Ronald Reagan, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signing_statements

This is another one of those things that has little effect in a practical sense, and has been a part of the political landscape for a long time. I'm actually surprised conservatives didn't scream when President Clinton started issuing them during his Administration.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Jul 25 2006, 05:25 PM) [snapback]292319[/snapback]</div>

Well, actually most of the work congress does do is pointless, but that is a whole other discussion! <_<

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Jul 25 2006, 05:25 PM) [snapback]292319[/snapback]</div>

As crazy as it sounds, and yes that's saying a lot when talking about politics, the President cannot refuse to sign or enforce a bill because he believes it to be unconstitutional. The constitutionality of a bill is for the Supreme Court to decide and any determination of Constitutionality by the executive is a violation of the separation of powers. Remember, if the president fails to sign a bill, if passed properly by the congress and submitted at the right time, the bill will automatically become law.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Jul 25 2006, 05:25 PM) [snapback]292319[/snapback]</div>

Signing statements are simply the presidents opinions, are you saying that by expressing an opinion different than that of Congress is something a President should not do? Obviously this President has not agreed with all the positions taken by his party members in Congress. Because, while ALL "progressive liberals" believe he doesn't think for himself, he actually does.

How many times must his ideas defeat those of the liberal bend before anyone on the left gives him some credit for being able to beat them soooooo many times! That is the great liberal weakness, they have focused on Bush, have no platform to stand on of their own, when they do take an actually stand on a platform people usually find it repulsive (not all but a majority and repulsive may be a bit strong), and failed to present options and only criticisms for those who do present options. People want leadership, the liberals (and currently democrats have none) Bush gives it to them (insert pun here).

And, as much as I disliked Clinton and thought he sowed the seeds for a lot of the misfortunes that the Bush administration has faced (yes including Katrina, Al Gore used his weather control device) I never underestimated him or his ability to persuade or lead people and therefore was rarely supressed by how events surrounding him transpired. Unlike the utter disbelief that liberals (democrats) seem to have for the continued success of the "
shrub"!

"progressive liberal" a definition - a person who believes that you have the absolute freedom to think and believe and act in any manner you so chose regardless of the consequences, as long as they approve of the action, thought or belief; and, it is perfectly acceptable for any group that claims to be persecuted by another to intentionally murder innocent people as an expression of rage against their oppressors and an attempt to gain public "support" (or fear) whichever occurs first.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jul 26 2006, 10:06 AM) [snapback]292630[/snapback]</div>

Your estimation of my political leanings is a spectacular example of why I don't believe I'll put much credence in your ability to fairly and accurately judge any current political leader.

 

Hey, I'm not a "progressive liberal", I'm more towards the center...but one could easily modify your definition to fit some of the "right wing conservatives"...our current President included.

Right wing conservative -
A person who believes that they can convince you that you have the absolute freedom to think and believe and act in any manner THEY so chose regardless of the consequences, as long as they approve of the action, thought or belief; and, it is perfectly acceptable for any group that THEY claim to be persecuted by another to intentionally murder innocent people as an expression of rage against their oppressors and an attempt to gain public "support" (or fear) whichever occurs first.


As far as the signing statements...it is all a bunch of BS. We elect these bozos for both parties, and they just sit around doing next to nothing! This is just another ploy the parties use, so that the Congressmen can vote as their "people" want them to, knowing full well that it will never actually be enforced.

All for voting records and future propaganda...uh, I mean future elections.

 

mssmith,

Well said. Sadly, money and power speak louder than the vote.