Escape and Accord

I too could make the PDFs

 

scan the pages and post em here. if the pic is big enough we should be able to read it no problem.

also, the print issue of most mags has info a month or more ahead of the online version. this is done to promote the paper copy which brings the publisher a lot more money.

 

If you guys want to scan and send the copies back and for to each other privately, that's up to you. However, scanning and posting the articles here will violate copyright laws. If they are posted, they will be removed to protect the site from any potential to be shut down.

 

Vindication!

For years I have been harassed by anti-hybrid people claiming the technology in Prius is far too complex to ever become mainstream... and they always cited the system from Honda as the "better" choice instead.

Well today, that all changed. The article written in the newest edition of "Car and Driver" clearly points out that the Honda system is extremely complication. So much so in fact, that the "elegantly simple" claim I had about Prius comes shining through.

We already know that the newest Honda system has a "hybrid" A/C system, where it can run from either electricity or the engine. But since the battery-pack uses a passive recharging design, there isn't much electricity to spare in the first place. So the opportunities to run on electric-only A/C are pretty slim. In other words, that's complexity which really won't provide much of a gain... quite different from Prius with a much larger battery-pack fed by an active recharging design.

Anywho, this quote from that article is great, "the Accord-Hybrid has 'active' engine mounts that are electrically powered to counteract the vibrations of three-cylinder operation, a system of clutching the torque converter in harmony with the power pulses, and an anti-noise system plays through the radio speakers to counter the booming interior sounds." Whoa! All that to shut off half of the engine? Geez! Just use a smaller engine with a bigger motor instead. Reducing the RPM and shutting off the engine entirely are far more simple design... which Prius uses!

Stepping back a moment, all that complexity could be justified based on what it actually delivers. But it turns out, the MPG increase is only modest. And there is no reduction of smog-related emissions whatsoever! With a cost equal to HSD, there's simply no way it can compete in the long-run.

Ah! Finally getting solid proof of what I've been saying all along feels wonderful.

 

today i saw my first honda 6 cyl hybrid commercial. didnt really hear what they had to say about it as i was at the gym when it came on during the football game.

but i have yet to see my first Prius commercial...

 

Don't expect too many Prius commercials.

That would only make the backorder problem worse.

It will take virtually no effort to sell the 100,000 Prius due for the US this model year.

 

that i can easily agree with...

i wonder if honda's advertising has anything to do with the fact that they are not doing as well as they should be?

i noticed they also have plans for a pickup in the american market. cant for the life of me figure out why they waited so long.

 

The reason the Accord has to use sonic trickery to deactivate half it's cylinders (well, the car doesn't need to do it, it does it for the convienence of the driver) is because of the V configuration of the cynlinders.

Look at the implementation on the Civic. It can run on anywhere between one and four cylinders. It's not a fully hybrid like the Prius, but it does have some advantages in that area. Imagine if the Prius had that ability....

 

I seriously doubt running just 2 cylinders would naturally be smooth. Somehow, you still have to balance between the up & down strokes. 1/2 rotation should be harder to deal with than 1/3 rotation.

And Civic-Hybrid does not have the ability to run that way. The only thing it can do is deactive 3 while keeping 1 running during deceleration. It cannot continuously run that way. That's why VCM is such a big deal with Accord-Hybrid.

Also note that Civic-Hybrid has the extra complexity of 2 sparkplugs per cylinder.

 

Running on one, two, or three cylinders would be smooth as long as the cynlinders are inline. When you get into a V configuration, you do run into vibration problems. OTHO, I'm less of an engineer than you are, so who am I to say.

Lots of cars have the "extra complexity" of 2 sparkplugs per cylinder. It can be more efficient and results in better economy and performance.

 

Then why didn't Honda do that in the first place?

For that matter, why don't other cars do that?

In fact, why doesn't Prius do it?

Clearly, there is a technical challenge that has prevented that from being practical. Vibration sounds very likely.

 

They do. That's what we're discussing.

Other cars do. Several GM and Chryslers support displacement on demand. However, the GM and chryslers that do it are V8s. You have a even number of cylinders. A V8 with half the cylinders shut down wouldn't be as unbalanced as a V6 with 3 shut down.

Damn good question.

 

smoothness depends a lot on the weight of the flywheel and the amount of momentum the flywheel has.

if it has enough momentum to make a complete circle and still handle the load the car puts on it, then it will be relatively smooth. but if the flywheel is too light, it will not have enough force to make it around without more help. a single cylinder would be giving it a single push each revolution and that will most likely not be enough to maintain the angular velocity causing a slow down in the spin which will be rapidly increased when the cylinder fires again.

the flywheel is meant to smooth out the jerks of the engine with stored energy, but it can only do so much.

 

why should a Prius do it??

if it feels the need, it shuts off ALL its cylinders.

 

True.

However, what about if you're on the highway, and the engine comes on because electricity alone can't maintain cruising speed but the battery is in green? Wouldn't cutting fuel consumption by 1/4 or 1/3 be nice? There are many instances where it could be useful. Any extra bit of economy is a good thing.

 

Prius already does that.

Just watch the Multi-Display. You'll see the MPG shoot up when the RPM goes down.

 

I'm afraid you've totally missed the point.

 

Reducing emissions & consumption using a simple, reliable, and cost-effective design is the point. Prius does that. The other hybrid doesn't.