European Anti-Semitism - Alive and Well?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 14 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]441771[/snapback]</div>

It's not Jews that have too much power. It's ultra rich people that have too much power. Wealth concentration these days is just too concentrated at the top.

 

These attitudes are unfortunate. But, I know that you are aware, this is hardly a revelation. It is well-known that there are strong anti-Semitic feelings among many Europeans; I've seen a lot of articles about it. The question is- what do you do to counter it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 14 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]441854[/snapback]</div>

Nevermind that some schools in Europe are beginning to not teach about the Holocaust out of fear of angering the growing Muslim student population, who are taught at home that it is a myth.

War will reach Europe again, probably in my lifetime.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 14 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]441827[/snapback]</div>

No, Jews persay do not have too much power. Rich people have too much power, some of them may be jews, some of them may be mexican, some of them may be native americans. The power is from stems from the wealth. The perception that Jews possess too much wealth or power is just a racist stereotype.

Do you believe Jews have too little, too much or just the right amount of power?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 14 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]441854[/snapback]</div>

Well, does it give you any encouragement that many other people are just the opposite? My mother-in-law is from the Netherlands and came to the US when she was in her 20's. When she was a child during WWII, her family, as in the story of Anne Frank, risked their lives to hide Jews in their house.

 

I would agree with others here... it's not really the Jews, persay, that people hate, it's the concentration of wealth. And historically Jews have been known for being bankers and such, and getting rather wealthy. It's unfortunate that so many people misdirect their feelings in this manor.

However, i do disagree with you about the holocaust - i don't think there are all that many people in Europe who want to see that happen again. In fact, i would say that most of them were appalled by what happened. You are somewhat correct in that there were millions of willing Europeans involved in the holocaust, however I think it's impossible to say with any certainty that they wanted it to happen. Germany's army was a huge and powerful force, the secret police had everyone terrified. How do you differentiate someone who goes along with the act out of fear, and someone who would be performing the act without that threat?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ May 14 2007, 04:30 PM) [snapback]441892[/snapback]</div>

I think you are right about most Europeans attitude toward the Holocaust. It is seen as an object of great shame. In Germany (unlike on PriusChat), the Hitler salute, swastika, or anything to do with Nazism is forbidden. People there realize what a shameful event in human history this was. I believe, at least I hope, that those who would deny that the Holocaust happened or who minimize its significance are in the minority.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 14 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]441771[/snapback]</div>

An organization looking for antisemitism to fight is bound to find antisemitism, to justify their own existence. Of course most young people will say "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust". Not because the Holocaust is not important, not because they're antisemitic. If your spouse talks about his/her dead mother all the time for decades, after a while, it will get to you. That does not mean you don't love him/her or that you think it's not important. It does mean you feel it's time to face current issues, learning from the past but not living in the past.

The survey was crafted for the sole purpose of justifying the headlines on that site. It's easy to design a survey that will get you any outcome you like, by asking the right (or should I say wrong) questions. My response to this post is probably enough to qualify me as antisemitic in their eyes.

 

Anti-Semitism is growing. Worse, political correctness keeps it from being recognized.

I have a Jewish friend who has devoted all of her spare time to getting Gitmo closed. While there may be an innocent or two mixed up in the detainees there, on the whole, those people want her -- and all Jews (and the rest of us) -- dead. But she sees our government as the enemy she should fear! She works tirelessly to close Gitmo.

As for talking about the Holocaust too much, I recently taught a Protestant children's Sunday school. None of them had ever heard about the Holocaust. (I taught them.) They need to know. All our children need to know.

And as for believing that the Jews killed Jesus, you need to be careful how you interpret the answer to that question. I believe that the Jews and the Roman killed Jesus. But I don't blame either one. I know that if I had been alive at the time and was a Pharisee, that I, too, would have conspired to have him eliminated. The Jews may have been the instruments, but we all killed Jesus. The Jews do not deserve to be singled out or punished for this as we all had a part.

Interestingly, my brother had a college classmate whose father was a WWII veteran and who had amassed a large collection of authentic Nazi paraphanalia. I think he gathered it on the battlefied. These objects were regarded as trophies proclaiming the defeat of the Nazi enemy, like scalps. There is a photo in their college yearbook of the boys surrounded by the Nazi paraphanalia. It was taken in the spirit of big game hunters posing with their dead lions, rhinos, whatever. They were young men proud of their fathers' victory in war over a terrible enemy. Decades later, the press picked up this photo and ran it, calling those in the pictures Neo-Nazis. Nothing could be further than the truth. I think it was an attempt to ruin some careers, but it didn't work.

We seem to have trouble understanding who our real enemies are. It is not the Jews. They may be the first target. The rest of us are next.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 15 2007, 09:52 AM) [snapback]442365[/snapback]</div>

One of the most powerful tools is education. We plan on taking our kids to Washington this year, and one of the first places that I want to take them is the Holocaust Museum. I wonder how many European cities have a Holocaust museum?
As I mentioned, my daughter was recently in a play based on the diary of Anne Frank. It was performed a half-dozen times over two weeks by our community theatre company, and after every performance people were in tears. If you have a local repertory or community theatre company, ask the director if they would consider presenting "Yours, Anne". One of the most moving dramatic works I have ever seen.

 

Some quotes for you to ignore, Berman (As posted by the BBC):

These are quotes from experts in Europe and the field of Anti-Semitism.

As i've said before on this board, traditional news services tend to over exaggerate everything. They want something to be sensational, to draw in viewers. It's a sure bet that having a headline about the brutal beating of a Jewish boy in Europe will bring in viewers (and advertising the headline for the previous 24 hours will sway opinion, even before you find out it was just another mugging). If you take any big news topic and poll the populace, a majority of them will side with that news topic, because it's what they've heard. It doesn't matter if they've seen, experienced, or participated in anti-Semitism, it's on the news so "it must be true".

Trust the experts in the field. These are the people who are living it, who are familiar with situation and who don't rely on a sensationalist media to get their facts.

*edited to add speaker information, which was accidentally removed*

 

hmmm.... 4 hours, and no response from Berman (plus posts in other areas from him)... ignored like i thought.

 

"Anti-Semitism is growing. Worse, political correctness keeps it from being recognized."
This is hypocritical. PC is the tendency to try to appease everyone and offend no one. How does that have anything to do with you feeling persecuted as a jew? PC deters people from saying "i got jewed", camel jockey, redneck or one of many, many, other racially insensitive comments. How is this ADDING to racism?

Why do you have such a big chip on your shoulder Berman?
There is NO anti-semitism here in PC, and we're a pretty diverse sampling of Americans and other countries? Yet you constantly strive to bring anti-semitism into discussions. Poor Dr B, he's so persecuted, as a successful well educated doctor! Anti-semitism is the exception, not the rule (unless you are Islamic).
Islamics are clearly anti-Semitic. Are Jews clearly anti-Islamic? Probably.

As for Europe:
There history with Jews and racism follows the same pattern as Americans and African Americans. It's a dwindling point of view as that group gets integrated and new immigrants draw the ire of those populations.

Jews and Islamics are BOTH TRYING to fuel the fire of hatred towards the other group in Europe in the coming decade and both complain about persecution/racism as a defense at the same time they are trying to funnel hatred to the other group. It's just not feasable that millions of immigrant Islamics can flow into "old Europe" without rekindling the same hatred we see in Isreal. Whether the existing caucasions pick a side or try to moderate or keep the peace is completely up in the air and will depend on the actions of the aforementioned groups. A couple of major terrorist attacks in Europe could go a long way to unite Jews and Christians against Islam (as I believe has happened in the US). Or mass murders of palestinians by Isreal could do the opposite. Who the heck knows? All of this is simple human nature at its dirtiest.

People will always be skeptical of new immigrants regardless of where you live. Americans have gone through a long list of racism towards the newest immigrant group and it's currently focused on Islamics and/or Mexicans, NOT Jews.

 

pot and kettle? excuse me? I always provide a decent reply to any post within a reasonable time limit... i don't ignore topics for hours hoping they'll go away because i don't know how to intelligently deal with the post.

your clear sarcastic attitude in replying to two well thought out, well researched posts shows your complete and total disregard of any viewpoint other than your own. notice i didn't post quotes that said there wasn't any anti-semitism in Europe - instead, my quotes said it was in the minority, or that what was being perceived as anti-semitism was in fact acts against Israel, and not necissarily the Jewish people.

Maybe you'd like to spend a few minutes to develop an actually counter argument, instead of simply mocking the opposition?