EV charging only to 28 miles, dropped from 32-33 miles

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by steelva, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. mczouav

    mczouav Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    49
    24
    0
    Location:
    BE
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Did you activate battery heater during the charge? Makes a big difference in winter...

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,626
    6,911
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Yeah, the battery heater is ON by default unless you dig into the set up to turn it off. I don't even know why Toyota gives operator option to turn this protective function off. But AFAIK, it only heats battery before charging starts while it is plugged in. I have a nightly charge schedule to finish by 5:30 am, but the heater makes no difference in terms of gas engine coming on at low ambient temperature. In the morning, I purposefully start my car in HV to warm up the engine and use if for heating even at temperature above 14F to avoid using the battery charge for the heat pump operation.
     
  3. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,257
    1,314
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    6.xKWh is what I originally saw. It went down to 4.5ish for several months, but now it’s up to 5.5ish.

    It’s unlikely they’re reporting inaccurately, since the actual range is down, and since the range largely matches the computer-reported miles per KWh times the # KWh charged.

    Same results from various chargers.
     
    Gokhan likes this.
  4. Mikhail Bond

    Mikhail Bond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2019
    138
    65
    0
    Location:
    Socal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    My 2018, 125k miles only charges to 26
     
  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    1,227
    568
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    That's not encouraging regarding the longevity of the battery. You live in a warm climate, too.
     
  6. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,373
    1,025
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Tonight's weather in Austin TX: Low of 47 degrees F, Thursday nights low 41 F.



    Rob43
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    94,233
    42,713
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    orlando tonight; 34f
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    17,386
    6,728
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    there are some hilly areas in San Diego. That could be it.
    .
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    94,233
    42,713
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    not to mention beaches, parks, highways...
     
  10. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,373
    1,025
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    You have a sense o humor.... :giggle:


    Rob43
     
    bisco likes this.
  11. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,257
    1,314
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Perhaps. However, it’s worth remembering that it did come back up — not all the way back, but back.

    I personally doubt if the actual physical capacity of the batteries actually changed much. I think, in part because it came back, that it’s mostly just being more cautious about overcharging — about preserving the battery’s longevity. It’s enforcing a larger “top margin.”
     
  12. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    2,567
    1,959
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base

    Why Electric Cars Struggle in the Cold—and How to Help Them | WIRED


    As the temperature drops, the electrolyte fluid inside the battery cells becomes more sluggish. “You don’t have as much power when you want to discharge,” says Stefanopoulou. “The situation is even more limited when you want to charge.”


    Modern cars are designed to take that into account, with battery thermal management systems that warm or cool a battery. But while an internal combustion engine generates its own heat, which warms the engine and the car occupants, an EV has to find that warmth somewhere else, either scavenging the small amount of heat that motors and inverters make or running a heater. That takes energy, meaning there's less power available to move the wheels.

    Mike
     
  13. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,257
    1,314
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    So wait, let me see if I follow you here ... you’re saying that outdoor temperatures can drop to below 70??

    No, kidding obviously, but two things:
    * I live in Austin TX, and I keep our Prius Prime in an enclosed garage, so it only occasionally sees temperatures lower than 40ish. Even in January, it’s usually in the 50s or above here.
    * The reductions in charging I’ve seen have been over a much longer term than seasonal temperature differences.

    For the first 9ish months after we got our Prius Prime, it was fairly consistently charging 6.3ish KWh, then for six-eight months (IIRC) it dropped to 4.5ish, and for the past year or so, it’s been charging 5.5ish.

    No clear relationship to temperatures. Probably more related to charging habits. In particular, that I level-2 charge 2 and occasionally 3 times per day. However, I usually only once/day charging to “full,” which of course is not really full but up to the “top margin” — in general probably ~85%.

    I suspect the difference is that the SW has looked at my charging patterns and is trying to protect battery life by dropping that to 75-80%.
     
    #53 mr88cet, Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,626
    6,911
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Have you ever checked your traction battery either at a dealer or using module and TechStream during that period? I don't doubt what you have observed. There has to be some explanation, but I think there was anomaly in you car that most other PRIME owners have never experienced. Your car reprogramming the charging patter to a larger “top margin” is plausible, but do we have any supportive documents for this explanation either from the manufacture or from other users? If this was what happened to your car, it should be easily checked by looking at the real traction battery SOC corresponding to the 100% and the 0% on display using app like Hybrid Assistant. Mine for the duration of 2.5 years has stayed for 84%=100% SOC on display, and 11%=Freshly reached 0% SOC on display. This never changed even when I was always charging the battery full right after I come home around 5 pm and car sat with 100% SOC overnight for my first year. Although I did not see noticeable change in a full charge kWh amount over 2.5 years, being cautious, I have changed my charging habit to use nightly schedule after the first year.
     
  15. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,257
    1,314
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Reasonable thoughts! I have seen others here mentioning similar drops. I *think* Bob Wilson reported a somewhat similar reduction, although his usage patterns are somewhat different from mine.

    As of right now, I can only make reasonable guesses; I have not asked the dealer to investigate, and I don’t have hybrid assistant (yet at least), and not a lot of free time to look into it.

    I personally doubt if Toyota would bat an eyelash at a reduction to 28-29 GoM miles, which is what I’m seeing now, since they advertise it as a 25-mile battery (originally 22).

    I also wonder if the dealer would be able to make much sense of it; my usual service advisor freely admits that plug-in vehicles are outside of his experience/comfort zone. Hopefully at least some of the service technicians themselves have a higher level of knowledge.
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,626
    6,911
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Again, I have to stress that GOM miles is very poor indicator of battery condition. What it display has very little to do with true battery capacity or degradation of capacity IMHO.

    Yeah, sadly I have to admit you maybe correct that the dealer tech may not be much of help on this one.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  17. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,257
    1,314
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Sure, but that’s probably what the dealer would pay attention to. And 28-29 GoM miles is actually not far off. My one-way commute is 19 miles, and I typically get home with 9ish miles to spare.
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,626
    6,911
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Yeah, if you drive same route everyday and driving conditions are constant, GOM estimate is fairly accurate... that is unless you do what I do.
    GOM.png
     
    jerrymildred and mr88cet like this.
  19. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,257
    1,314
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Yeehah! How many real miles do you typically get?

    In any case, until I start seeing <25 on the GoM, I expect O’Toyta will just tell me to go home and chill.
     
  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    8,626
    6,911
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    I get ~20 miles of real EV drive. BUT, with only 50-60% SOC used. Current daily charge to replenish this 50-60% SOC usage is 3-4kWh/day, that's about 5.0-6.7miles/kWh in real life number. Although that is still much lower than what shown on the car.

    mileskwh.png
     
Loading...