EV's may be costlier than petrol cars - Alarmist BBC article

The link charts are fake. The poor folks that put it together seem to have deliberately left out THE most HUGE items in computing ICE vs EV costs, as in:

The Gulf War(s) and related terrorism
Fiery - Daily Deaths, when collisions involve fossil fuel explosions
Health costs from pollution
Fossil fuel production peaking, and forever spiraling downward.

Other than that . . . . .
ound:

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Biggest item is depreciation. They think iMiEV depreciates 14,000 pounds in 3 years compared to 5,000 for a Fiat 500.

Actual fuel costs are 7 to 8 times cheaper for EV than ICE.

Fiat 500 : £3,280
Mitsu iMiEV : £432

 

you really can't argue with anything in the article. it is well thought out and depreciation is the real questionmark. who knows what it will be, it's a wild guess and i would say mitsi is already rethinking their position, probably cause they had to come down so much in price, they would prefer not to sell any.
it might be a good thing if sales develop naturally and every nut who doesn't do his homework rushes out to buy one is not out there badmouthing them like i thought it would do this and i thought it would do that. just like some of these crazy genIII buyers, it's a piece of junk, it's terrible on the highway, blah, blah, blah.

 

Replacing a Prius traction battery is no big deal, the same cannot be said for EV. Until EV proves its longevity, assumed depreciation and depressed used car prices are going to be the norm.

 

And we are sure about future oil prices ?

 

The traction battery replacement cost story in the Prius has taught me a lesson: What matters most in cost is vehicle volume, because without mainstream volumes no lightly used or secondary market develops.

So the differences in cost between a Prius and say Leaf battery are three-fold:
24 kwh vs 1.2 (?)
Relatively straightforward installation (Prius) Vs Not;
and no downward pressure on costs from lightly used batteries.

This is all before you even consider any specific battery chemistry/packaging/cooling implementation longevity.

The recent problems that have started to surface with Honda hybrid batteries just are a hint that subtle differences in manufacturing can be a major headache in auto batteries, and some degree of skepticism is warranted until the cars have been running around for 3-5 years in reasonable volumes.

It may turn out that Nissan has made a terrific battery good for 200k miles, but as a bleeding edge customer I would look to insure my purchase. Coming from me, that says something.

 

Don't worry, Uncle Sam will do what ever it takes to make sure there will be a constant supply of crude oil to our country.

 

Their numbers are lovely and everything, but i'm not too interested in comparing a imiev to a 500. both are too small for me. try comparing a volt to an insignia, or a leaf to an astra. and also try more than 12,000 miles a year. oh yes, the EV smokes the ICE in any scenario then.

Plus, my last car had an MSRP of £21,350 and after three years i got £5,500 trade in on the Prius. That is normal.

 

Ouch.

Even GM does not depreciate that bad in the US

 

Haha, it was a GM car!!

Anything small like the 500, Corsa, Ka etc keeps a reasonable value (because we all love small cars...) but anything focus sized or larger very rapidly becomes worthless. not that suprising when your fuel, as Grumpy pointed out, is close to $7 a gallon.

 

When it comes to buying in America, the leaf and volt both come with affordable leases. Depreciation with a lease is no risk at all and the numbers can be cracked by anyone. The volt doesn't make much sense outside of the lease, the leaf you can make your own decision based on what you expect resale value and battery longevity to be. There is of course the tesla which makes sense in its segment even with high depreciation.

The phv prius, focus phev and bev, sonata phev and bev, rav4 bev coming soon. Depending on technology these cars could force depreciation higher if they do a better job. Anyway you cut it though with government incentives these cars do and will make sense for hundreds of thousands of drivers.

The imev in the US doesn't seem to make much sense. It is much more expensive than a smart and probably worse to drive. For an ev it seems much less capable than the leaf but priced the same.

Do you not have leases and a used car market in england?

 

The depreciation difference is 50% for both the 500 and the Mitsubishi. What shocks me is the MSRP for the iMiEV. The Leaf is cheaper in the US, by about 35%.

They also ignored the cost of oil changes and other maintenance costs.

 

Let's see . . . RAV4-ev: On the roads now for what ... maybe 10 years? Many with over 100,000 miles. They'e using the older nickel chemestry, too. That'd probably be a good starting guess for longevity of newer/better battery formulas, eh? and have you seen what THEY still for on the used market?

 

We are in Peak Everything - Century of Declines. If you think and act short-term, then yes, EVs are more expensive. When you think and act long-term, EVs are far more cost effective. This will become even more so as PHVs are released in 2012+. When you double efficiency you cut cost by one-half.

Recently stopped at a Smart Car dealer in Sacramento. The dealer explained the cars are only ICEs. When in fact, Smart Cars come in a variety of configurations, including EVs and hybrids. It is the mind set that continues to substitute oil for knowledge and retain addiction to Big Carbon that is the problem. Look for mind set changes in 2012.

 

Very true about the Rav EV, but I would not be quick to extrapolate its iconic history to a 1st gen mass produced EV using unproven battery chemistry, from EV novice car manufacturers. Yeahh, I include GM in that group.

 

And EV's powered by excess generation of renewables? After their 5 to 10 year payback, the remaining 20-15 year life expectancy is FREE. I wonder how much BP stock the author has.

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Mitsubishi's are crap, but that article isn't a great comparison. I'd rather see one, for NA markets, between a Nissan Versa and a Nissan Leaf. I imagine the leaf is still more expensive, but that's no surprised to anybody. AFAIK The Prius Gen 3 with current Toyota incentives is basically the first time hybrids have actually been an economically break-even option (at least in north america).

But basically with this tech being so new I can't imagine anybody really expected it to be cheaper.