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Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Wildkow, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    This topic should be interesting.




    Wildkow
     
  2. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    I guess not! LOL! :biggrin1:
     
  3. rpiereck

    rpiereck Regenerator

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    That Youtube video sucked....





    jk... I am actually looking forward to seeing this, see what Ben Stein has to say.
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Well, I'm not sure what the "topic" is that you think will be interesting....that the onus is on those who believe in religion to prove it or the movie itself, or being expelled. The trailer didn't say much about the movie and you chose not to elaborate on what you thought should provoke discussion. I think a lot of people don't watch the videos if there's no 'teaser' to let us know what it's about...I didn't until this morning and I saw the post minutes after you put it up. I figured I'd wait until someone else saw it and started discussing the 'interesting topic'....and I still don't know what that topic is.
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Me neither. I watched the video, and couldn't figure out what it was about. The music had a nice beat, though. I think the same music was used as a theme song for a movie about a Marine who has to baby-sit some kids.
     
  6. rpiereck

    rpiereck Regenerator

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    Heartbreak Ridge? :roll:
     
  7. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Active Member

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  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Ah, Michael Moore gone Christian extremist kinda thing. I love the lucid description of the deception gone to to get the interview with the Pharyngula guy...then they don't let him in the Premier! Awesome. I'm sure this'll play at every church in the country to make them feel self-important and rightous....the excitement over the trashing of Golden Compass has just started to ebb.
     
  9. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    I'm still trying to figure out why Stein is dressed as Angus Young, of the band AC/DC. I'll bet he doesn't jam NEARLY as well, though.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    Tricked, how were they tricked?

    Wildkow
     
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Read the articles linked.
     
  12. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

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    That song always reminds me of Terminator 2.
     
  13. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Not at my church it won't. Actually, though the creationist know-nothings are very vocal, I believe a minority of churches, even a minority of Christian churches, reject evolution. Catholics and most mainstream Protestants accept evolution.
     
  14. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    The only trickery I see here is that the evolutionists would have changed their answers to fit the topic. Now that’s tricky!!! LOL! Also it doesn't seem to be a propaganda film in support of ID but more a documentary film about how ideas are stifled within academia.

    This is a great reply to PZ Myers blog cite.


    Evolution News & Views: Why P. Z. Myers should be wearing the short pants and sneakers

    Wildkow
     
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    You don't think it's appropriate to be informed about the purpose of an interview? You don't think it's OK to change your answers depending upon the target audience?

    If I'm interviewed about a medical topic under the premise that it'll be informational for general consumer use my answers to the questions will be stated in a far different way than if the information is intended for other medical professionals. I'll use common words to keep things simple. Played to an audience of medical professionals who are told that I am an expert in the topic I'll sound like a total idiot with no credibility.

    I see this situation as identical. He was told a lie about how the interview would be used and he 'dumbed down' his replies for the purpose he was told to expect. So yea, he's gonna come across as a bit of a duffus when the material is placed in an entirely different context than he modeled his replies for. It's not a small matter.

    If you think this is a fair way to conduct an interview I assume you have no issue with the Michael Moore films either?!:lie:
     
  16. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    The very article quoted in the OP and relied on for the “Tricked†allegation says that this letter was sent to solicit each interviewee. . .

    “We are interested in asking you a number of questions about the disconnect/controversy that exists in America between Evolution, Creationism and the Intelligent Design movement.â€

    The purpose of the interview and the purpose of the movie seem pretty much in line. They must have been awfully tricky questions because each one of them signed a release form, allegedly received a generous honoraria, cashed the honoraria checks and spent the money. Not to mention the fact that the interviewer went over all the questions beforehand and e-mailed them out to many of the interviewees beforehand. It sounds to me like a few of them were tricked into making long unedited denouncements of Christianity and/or tricked into giving honest answers that they now regret, LOL!

    “there could have been a designer of life on earth, but it would have had to have been “a higher intelligence†that had itself evolved “to a very high level . . . and seeded some form of life on this planet.†– Richard Dawkins.

    IMO and from what I have read so far the documentary is not just a look at or a critique of the limitations of The Origin of Species, but an attempt to uncover the mindset that Darwinism has engendered in those whose agenda is to replace God or traditional understandings of God. It is a movie more about anti-censorship than anti-science or anti-evolution. Tell you what why don’t we go watch it and then comment on it this weekend?

    BTW your example is nothing at all like the example before us and I know you too well to believe that you could not talk at the level of a layperson and a professional during the same interview. Give me a break. I can’t tell you how many countless hours of Educational TV I have watched where the interviewee has done just that. Example: Carl Sagan.

    The impetus for the movie came about when “co-producer and software engineer Walt Ruloff, . . . was working on a project with a group of biotechnologists and learned “that there was a whole series of questions that could not be asked.â€
    The prevailing ideology among many scientists—it turned out—he concluded, was keep your mouth shut, take the research money, and publish only the data that fits with “the party line.†The issue that concerns Ruloff and the others behind Expelled is whether the scientific establishment in this country is going to allow genuine “freedom of inquiry,†or simply shut up—and slander—those who do not toe the line.â€


    Wildkow
     
  17. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    That's what you said. Now watch how it can be edited to say something different:

    I'll play editor, and you can be an interviewee:

    Wildkow, on the movie, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed":

    "It sounds to me like [a movie about] Christianity, giving honest answers that they now regret. IMO and from what I have read so far the documentary is about anti-science; the prevailing ideology is
    simply shut up—and slander—those who do not toe the line.â€

    I didn't add a thing. That's what you meant...right?
     
  18. spf

    spf Junior Member

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    It is a movie more about anti-censorship than anti-science or anti-evolution. Tell you what why don’t we go watch it and then comment on it this weekend?



    I agree. Objectively speaking, to me it would make sense logically to go and see the movie and then comment. Otherwise we are not making comments in the true context of what the writers intended to say, whether we agree with them or not.....we are simply making comments based on what our preconceived biases and assumptions may be. Intellectual honesty would suggest to me that we all see the movie and then discuss.
     
  19. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    maybe someone can review it, but geez, i still can't figure out what angle they're presenting from.

    if it's from the id/anti-evolution camp... there is no way to produce scientific evidence for god or for a designer or whatever you would like to call it. it is not within the realm of scientific study, so no time, no funding, and no publications are expended upon the cause.

    if it's about scientific selectivity in research, let's keep in mind that the NIH operating budget isn't even keeping up with inflation, and many prominent scientists (and promising new researchers) cannot get funding to do what they really believe will work. they are forced to stick with what is less risky and more fundable, vs reaching for the limit of what is possible. a sad state given what we're really capable of doing with such brilliant minds and great technology.
     
  20. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Active Member

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    I think the fact that they tricked the evolutionary biologists into interviewing for the movie is an important point not because the biologists would necessary change their "story," but because they should be given the option of choosing whether or not they want to participate in the type of movie that was being produced. They were led to believe that it was going to be a balanced look at the interface between religion and science in today's culture. Instead, it is a pro-ID movie that takes the comments of the evolutionary biologists out of context and intersperses clips of goose-stepping Nazis with the interview clips (I know! I know! "Goodwin's Law" should be invoked but it's actually in the movie).

    So, while the biologists wouldn't change their answers, they sure as hell would be much more careful with what they say if they knew it was for a pro-ID movie (and, perhaps, refuse to do the interview at all since they know their comments would be taken out of context).

    It's like the reporters that occationally pop up on Priuschat from time to time that are looking to interview people about their experiences with the car. People always warn anyone that looks to do an interview that they need to be careful about possible ulterior motives of the interviewers. If I'm giving someone a "fair and balanced" review of the Prius, I'm likely to be very up-front with them about how the mileage really dips in the winter (particularly if you take short trips), but that it's still much better than almost any other car in those circumstances. However, if I knew a reporter was doing a story about how the Prius's gas mileage didn't "live up to the hype," I might be much more hesitant to bring that up right away since I know my words would be twisted so the headline was, "Local Prius Owner Disappointed Car Only Gets 35 MPG!!!!"

    So, it's not that the story is going to "change" if they know who their interviewers are; it's just that you have to be a whole lot more careful about what you say since you know what you say will be quoted out of context and distorted (as PZ Meyers, Richard Dawkins, and others were in this case).