Featured FBI versus Tesla

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by hill, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Usle

    Usle Member

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    Not to put the cart in front of the horse, all we know is that the FBI is Formally investigation Tesla, the FBI never relaease information about investigations, well, except when a Clinton is infolved.
    So any conjecture otherwise is simply fodder.
    Stay tuned.
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Although sources were not revealed, I would guess Martin Tripp and the nut case who claimed Tesla was harboring a drug ring. Then there were all the contractor labor laid off in Q2.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    the contractors could move to Nashville - Nissan is hiring up in their Smyrna TN plant.

    .
     
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    From reading it appears to be about securities fraud from over promising model 3 production in signed statements, and also talking about the buyout in ways that did not follow protocol. Both these things are bad. We shouldn't cherry coat it. The second was given a slap on the wrist by the SEC after the threat of the SEC really hurting tesla shareholders, which is counter to its purpose. The initial threat was that elon pumped the stock which hurt shareholders, so the SEC was going to stop him from leading which was going to hurt shareholders more. I belived that it will be virtually impossible for the FBI to charge him criminally for what the sec already realized was a minor thing. It can be used to support charges for bad material statements about being able to ramp up to 5K model 3s a week at the end of 2017.

    The over promising in material statements is tough to prosecute, and I don't think it will happen here. They have to prove he did it on purpose and that he wasn't just being optimistic, but knew the factories wouldn't be able to ramp. This probably slowed the actual ramp, caused too many contractors to be hired, hurt some suppliers, and was bad for employee moral. In other words it was probably just mismanagement given the other things they did. The leak of the case well was probably done by people that either can gain by tesla doing badly, or politicians that don't like the change given their donor lists of big oil and big auto. I wish some of these things were prosecuted though, its just that in tesla's case it likely didn't rise as high as other companies.

    This is not an easy thing or a likely thing. The skills are not all that transferable and tesla was likely paying them more, so they would not be considered good hires by nissan if they analyze. Contractors don't have many rights. The fbi investigation is not about that. That would be a state of california investigation and if california won, telsa would probably fairly quickly try to move the factory out to a friendlier state. Toyota and GM left, which is why telsa has the NUMMI factory to begin with.
     
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  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    There"s still irony here. Tesla/Musk pay millions for being overzealous & or stupid. GM & the tire companies criminally conspire to destroy all of the electric trolleys many decades ago so the companies could sell more buses & tires &, what was it they paid for their criminal conviction? something around a dollar?
    .
     
  6. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I'm not the biggest fan of Tesla (mostly for the same reason I'm not a fan of soccer) but......REALLY?

    Doesn't the FBI have better things to do?
     
  7. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I got out of the stock last year, but no, this was not overzealous. It was wrong to claim a buyout offer until talk at least privately with the board, and a public statement following SEC rules. It appears that it was an illegal attempt to hurt shorts, but hurt his share holders as well. The $20M fine for himself and tesla are tiny for what he did, but charging tesla more hurts shareholders in a way greater than musk himself, which is who the SEC should be protecting. it was probably appropriate. Material information should never be offered in a tweet. It appears from the last tesla meeting Musk is reforming in a good way for shareholders and the company. He didn't do any of his usual antics, and tesla has a good story to tell without doing these things. He did move the meeting up to hurt financial enemies of tesla that have been putting out misinformation. It was timed to hurt those selling calls or buying puts, and only the big guys got hurt. Some speculated and bought calls expecting this was the strategy. Musk's use of twitter while on ambien, especially over that thai cave stuff, should hopefully stop too.

    Again I think a criminal case on this or his over promising on the factory won't go anywhere.

    I don't see the irony.

    Yes. Here I agree whole heartedly, but still they can do multiple things at once. I don't think it is bad that the fbi is investigating, but it is bad that it was made public, and there is little chance the fbi will bring charges.
     
  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I'm a very pro-LEO person by nature, but the FEBES haven't really demonstrated an ability to professionally handle even ONE high profile investigation while bedazzled by bright lights and harsh questioning, and AGAIN....I think that there are more important things for them to do.

    You have to love the irony, because the target of their investigation suffers from the same malady.

    SEC has some forensic accountants and trained investigators.......and they're dot.gov employees, so it goes without saying that they're overpaid, overstaffed, and I'm thinking that you can kick a few of them loose to do the leg work on this latest nontroversy.

    Otherwise?
    WHY HAVE AN SEC?
     
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I think you will need to kick this to FHOP. GM got a slap on the wrist and a fine after trial. Musk plea bargained and paid a higher fine than gm, but still tiny compared to the bad tweet. The plea meant he didn't drag tesla through years of bad pr on it. In fact if the tweet had come true and a lot of saudi money was going to be used in taking tesla private, tesla would be in worse shape given the current state of saudi politics.

    FBI and DOJ did a good job on manafort, and actually recovered more money for his tax and bank fraud than the entire investigation will cost. Hopefully he will help roll up more crooks. The excuse politically for not prosecuting is it was political witch hunt, well that simply is not true. I hope that if stone is convicted, he will finally get some serious jail. etc.

    If you think Musk hasn't been able to professionally run tesla you are quite wrong. When I bought shares in 2012, a us based auto company had not successfully gone public since ford in 1956. Tesla is now selling more cars than jaguar and porsche. It sells more in the US than BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus. Few analysts thought tesla could profitably make the model 3, yet in the last quarter tesla was profitable and cash flow positive even if you take away accounting tricks. The problem with musk is his tweeting, not being unprofessional. The Mueller investigation as well as the investigation into the pipe bomber was handled very professionally.

    I have trouble with big government and some things the fbi does politically, but I would like it if fewer of the rich and powerful got away with their crimes. The SEC blew the investigation into Madoff for years. I'd like to see more FBI scrutiny of wells fargo and bank of america.
     
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  10. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Oil lovers behind it? I say for the die hard oil lovers, fill a big vat full of crude oil, let 'em jump in, bask around in it.
     
  11. dipper

    dipper Senior Member

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    Just have some paid lady say Musk touched her. Got a lot of people fired recently with this move. If oil people want him gone so badly, they should follow the media more.

    Uh.... let's not give them any ideas now since my 401k has skin riding on Tesla winning. Hehehe.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that will poly be next. he's already survived the angry ex employee
     
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