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First 5 mins

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by gazz, May 10, 2007.

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  1. gazz

    gazz Member

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    Can anybody help with the first 5 mins of driving from cold, I have tried a number of differnent styles and cannot improve on about 30mpg.

    I have tried very slow startoff, faster start, parking noise out (so do not have to reverse).

    I am looking at a EBH for the winter but am having trouble finding one in the UK.

    Many Thanks
     
    #1 gazz, May 10, 2007
  2. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    That's probably about the best you'll do. Before my block heater install, that's about the most I ever got.
     
    #2 JimboK, May 10, 2007
  3. morpheusx

    morpheusx Professor Chaos

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ May 10 2007, 08:23 AM) [snapback]438979[/snapback]</div>
    Make sure you heater is off.
     
    #3 morpheusx, May 10, 2007
  4. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    The first five minutes kills everyone. The EBH will not make that lower first segment go away but it will most certainly reduce its impact. After 2.5 years of driving a Prius, I never stop getting frustrated with that first five-minute segment. Makes me feel as though the rest of the drive is solely for the purpose of compensating for it.

    I'm sure that if you are willing to pay shipping and handling, Wayne would be more than happy to fly over with an EBH and install it for you. Installation time is about one week: 30 minutes for the installation, seven days for sightseeing.
     
    #4 TonyPSchaefer, May 10, 2007
  5. gazz

    gazz Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboK @ May 10 2007, 07:29 AM) [snapback]438981[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks,

    But have you any preference on the rpm you should use for the first few miles. 1,500 or 2,000.
     
    #5 gazz, May 10, 2007
  6. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ May 10 2007, 08:23 AM) [snapback]438979[/snapback]</div>
    You can order one from Canada via the web.
    JeffD
     
    #6 jdenenberg, May 10, 2007
  7. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    The only way to avoid that problem is to keep the engine hot. You could let it idle 24 hours a day, but it might be hard on your mileage. :D Seriously, there isn't much you can do. It's just thermodynamics: you have to expend energy to heat the engine and catalytic converter.

    Tom
     
    #7 qbee42, May 10, 2007
  8. gazz

    gazz Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jdenenberg @ May 10 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]439010[/snapback]</div>
    The problem is the ones from Canada or US are only 110V not 240V we use in Europe. Any idears?
     
    #8 gazz, May 10, 2007
  9. Highly ImPriused

    Highly ImPriused Impressive Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ May 10 2007, 09:50 AM) [snapback]439017[/snapback]</div>
    I'm sure you can find a voltage converter. If not at a local electronics store, then certainly on-line. Here's one. Good luck!
     
    #9 Highly ImPriused, May 10, 2007
  10. gazz

    gazz Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Highly ImPriused @ May 10 2007, 08:59 AM) [snapback]439028[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks for that, got the web site for the EBH?
     
    #10 gazz, May 10, 2007
  11. Darken

    Darken Active Member

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    #11 Darken, May 10, 2007
  12. Highly ImPriused

    Highly ImPriused Impressive Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ May 10 2007, 10:22 AM) [snapback]439045[/snapback]</div>
    MetroTPN or Sigma (bottom of page) are the ones that I know of.
     
    #12 Highly ImPriused, May 10, 2007
  13. gazz

    gazz Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Highly ImPriused @ May 10 2007, 09:38 AM) [snapback]439061[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks for that again, last question do you know the current (watts) so I can size to 240-110 transformer.
     
    #13 gazz, May 10, 2007
  14. Highly ImPriused

    Highly ImPriused Impressive Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ May 10 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]439105[/snapback]</div>
    Unfortunately I don't know the watts as I've yet to purchase one (but I probably will prior to next winter). I'm sure someone who has one can chime in or you could send an inquiry to one of those sites if it's not listed in the specs.
     
    #14 Highly ImPriused, May 10, 2007
  15. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    It's about 400W.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #15 ken1784, May 10, 2007
  16. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ May 10 2007, 08:50 AM) [snapback]439017[/snapback]</div>
    Install two?

    :lol: :D :lol:

    Thank you, I'll be here all week.
     
    #16 TonyPSchaefer, May 10, 2007
  17. Rangerdavid

    Rangerdavid Senior Member

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    I thought it was 350??? well, could be 400..... sorry, i'm not sure. Where's FireEngineer when you need him???
     
    #17 Rangerdavid, May 10, 2007
  18. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    RangerDavid, I'm almost certain it's 400. I'm sure Wayne's out installing someone's block heater! :D

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gazz @ May 10 2007, 09:39 AM) [snapback]439006[/snapback]</div>
    For the first minute or so (less with an EBH) on a cold start, the car goes through its initial warmup cycle. After the first few seconds the ICE will run, but its focus is warming itself and the catalytic converter, not providing much power. If you try to accelerate rapidly, it will pull power from the battery. So I baby the pedal until this stage has passed. Fortunately, the length of my driveway is such that by the time I'm on the road this stage has passed.

    After that, I try to keep RPM within an efficient range: low end of 1400-1500, high end of 2300-2400, mid range of 1700-1800.
     
    #18 JimboK, May 10, 2007
  19. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

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    Gazz, you might also look for an EBH in Scandinavian or Northern Europe countries, to get the right voltage. Maybe Lowlander has some knowledge? Or Piotr in Poland? It's moving in to summer, so you have a couple of months for research... All that conversion for a resistance electric heater wastes energy...
     
    #19 Bill Merchant, May 11, 2007
  20. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

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    From northern Europe the DEFA model 872 is used with the Yaris with the same 1.5L 1NZ-FE engine.

    DEFA 872 Info

    1 NZ-FE Engine Installation

    DEFA actually recommends the DEFA 859 which is a pad that is mechanically attached to the engine block just below where the cast hole in the block is located.

    Both of these are 230V.

    Or you can go with the US heater and the transformer as Highly ImPriused suggested. The VAT for import might push you to the DEFA. There does not seem to be any DEFA distributor in England but any country west of France seems to have distribution.

    Wayne
     
    #20 FireEngineer, May 11, 2007
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