First Personal Prius-Bashing Experience

SunnyvalePrius · Apr 11, 2007

Well, I had read about people who are convinced the Prius is evil, but I had never personally met one until yesterday. While having lunch with some former colleagues, I was talking about my Prius. One of my former coworkers then started telling me all the awful things about the Prius. It was all the same things I had seen posted and rebutted here before.

There was the story of the nickel mine that destroyed the environment all because of the Prius, to which I could reply that Toyota buys 1% of the output, the mine has been polluting for 100 years, and other cars use nickel too.

There was the downward revision of the EPA mileage estimates, to which I could reply that nearly all cars were having their numbers revised down, and by about the same percentage, so the percentage advantage of the Prius was still the same.

There was the claim that the Prius was hugely expensive, to which I could point out that compared to other cars with similar passenger size, cargo capacity, and safety and comfort features, it really wasn't, and comparing it to a Geo Metro wasn't really an apples-to-apples comparison.

There was the claim that the battery wouldn't last long, to which I could point out the 10-year warranty.

One of my coworkers actually said that someone she knew never got over 30 MPG in the Prius. I could tell her how much better my mileage was, but it's hard to imagine where she got such a low number. I have to wonder if people somehow get it in their mind that the Prius is bad and just convince themselves of the truth of some number they just made up because it seems reasonable to them, given that they don't think the Prius is really that efficient.

It was interesting to see how none of my replies had any effect. The two colleagues who were bashing the Prius just kept moving to other arguments against it and weren't phased in the slightest when I had facts or personal experience to contradict what they thought.

So after a while I just gave up. Those two people are still just as convinced that the Prius is a marketing scam.

bredekamp · Apr 11, 2007

You made logical arguments.
You quoted facts.
You remained calm.

Sometimes people are just stubborn and there's nothing to be done. Just enjoy driving your Prius. You know you're right.

Has anyone of your colleagues driven a Prius? Here's an idea. Invite the more stubborn ones to lunch. Pick them up in your Prius. Show them that it drives, feels and looks like a normal car.

You mentioned "former coworkers"....maybe they're jealous of your new car.

larkinmj · Apr 11, 2007

Every person who has seen my car, and especially those who have been driven in it, has been highly impressed- even my friends who drive big gas-guzzling SUVs.

charliem · Apr 11, 2007

There are a lot of jealous people out there ,put them on ignore.I have witnessed this amongst my own friends.

cireecnop1 · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 11 2007, 06:44 AM) [snapback]421406[/snapback]</div>

Every person who has seen my car, and especially those who have been driven in it, has been highly impressed- even my friends who drive big gas-guzzling SUVs.
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every person I work with LOVES my car, the first thing they said about it was "it looks so sporty" B) thats because its the touring model I told them. Whenever someone goes for a "lunch run" they automatically come to my console and grab the keys to my car! not one of them can resist the chance to ride in, let a lone drive in, a Hybrid. I am sure its all the gadgets in the car but that ok they are saving the environment with every mile they put on my car instead of theirs.

robincx · Apr 11, 2007

95% of the time people are very impressed with my Prius, it is the default lunch car for the group. But, now and then I do sense an overly pushy driver that causes me to zoom quickly out of range. While that dents my milage in a negative way, I feel I silence the guzzlers with my speedy exit.

Your former co-workers are just jealous.

Robin

MegansPrius · Apr 11, 2007

And you need to tell that friend of a friend who gets under 30 mpg in her Prius that she should really try driving the car with the parking brake off.

Chuck. · Apr 11, 2007

Sunnyvale Prius,

Don't you get the impression some people never got past the grade school yard emotionally?

hill · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(charliem @ Apr 11 2007, 09:39 AM) [snapback]421420[/snapback]</div>

There are a lot of jealous people out there ,put them on ignore.I have witnessed this amongst my own friends.
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Jealous? I'd bet they're GM/SUV types. They're the ones who typically throw up the most crap.

rudiger · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Apr 11 2007, 10:40 AM) [snapback]421435[/snapback]</div>

And you need to tell that friend of a friend who gets under 30 mpg in her Prius that she should really try driving the car with the parking brake off. [/b]
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Another way for a Prius' gas mileage to take a dramatic dive is to forget to turn the vehicle off when exiting. Supposedly, a new owner managed to get 12 MPG in this manner when they left their Prius 'on' for an entire week. The battery would discharge and would then be recharged continually by the ICE cycling on and off.

ekpolk · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Apr 11 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]421451[/snapback]</div>

Jealous? I'd bet they're GM/SUV types. They're the ones who typically throw up the most crap.
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. . .and are the ones who are feeling a deep, irreconcilable need to justify their own very poor transportation choices.

I'd only add one suggestion for a response: advise these folks that there's plenty of reasonably priced professional help available for those who are so insecure that they feel the need to attack choices other people make and are happy about.

richard schumacher · Apr 11, 2007

Give us their names. We'll have them killed.

F8L · Apr 11, 2007

Most people do not want to feel they are wrong, have been living wrong, or made the wrong choices. As such the Prius basically screams at them, "you are doing it wrong". They then go about gathering data to support their choices despite any contradicting evidence that their data may be faulty.

I think Thom Hartman talked about this and called it "Framing". You create or adopt a mental frame and any facts that do not support your frame get tossed aside. It's much like religion.

ekpolk · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 11 2007, 10:59 AM) [snapback]421465[/snapback]</div>

. . . I think Thom Hartman talked about this and called it "Framing". You create or adopt a mental frame and any facts that do not support your frame get tossed aside. It's much like religion.
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And for some, the phenomenon is so powerful that they feel the need to affirmatively, sometimes viciously, attack any facts, viewpoints, paradigms, what-have-you, that don't fall squarely within their personal frame of reference.

larkinmj · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 11 2007, 11:59 AM) [snapback]421465[/snapback]</div>

Most people do not want to feel they are wrong, have been living wrong, or made the wrong choices. As such the Prius basically screams at them, "you are doing it wrong". They then go about gathering data to support their choices despite any contradicting evidence that their data may be faulty.

I think Thom Hartman talked about this and called it "Framing". You create or adopt a mental frame and any facts that do not support your frame get tossed aside. It's much like religion.
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Thom was probably referring to George Lakoff when he mentioned framing- Lakoff has written books on how conservatives use that to their advatage.
Thom Hartman has about the best talk program on radio- and it pisses me off that XM radio does not broadcast it!

Chuck. · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 11 2007, 10:59 AM) [snapback]421465[/snapback]</div>

Most people do not want to feel they are wrong, have been living wrong, or made the wrong choices. As such the Prius basically screams at them, "you are doing it wrong". They then go about gathering data to support their choices despite any contradicting evidence that their data may be faulty.[/b]
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There are too many people out there that attempt to make facts support erroneous conclusions.

What do you do with people who insist on living in denial?

I've heard of stories of Prius drivers pumping gas right after Katrina and big SUV drivers glare at them.

I don't know - if you give your good experiences, it will probably rub it in as it can't be refuted.

F8L · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 11 2007, 09:14 AM) [snapback]421473[/snapback]</div>

Thom was probably referring to George Lakoff when he mentioned framing- Lakoff has written books on how conservatives use that to their advatage.
Thom Hartman has about the best talk program on radio- and it pisses me off that XM radio does not broadcast it!
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I believe you are correct. I have a 28min Bioneers radio spot that Thom did titled :Frame or be Framed".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Apr 11 2007, 09:10 AM) [snapback]421467[/snapback]</div>

And for some, the phenomenon is so powerful that they feel the need to affirmatively, sometimes viciously, attack any facts, viewpoints, paradigms, what-have-you, that don't fall squarely within their personal frame of reference.
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I agree 100%.

F8L · Apr 11, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 11 2007, 09:38 AM) [snapback]421496[/snapback]</div>

There are too many people out there that attempt to make facts support erroneous conclusions.

What do you do with people who insist on living in denial?

I've heard of stories of Prius drivers pumping gas right after Katrina and big SUV drivers glare at them.

I don't know - if you give your good experiences, it will probably rub it in as it can't be refuted.
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I just give them a few rebuttals but if they are not willing to hear my new data then I will simply let them know my reasons for liking the Prius and let it go at that. Persistance is better than insistance.

As for the denialists. They should all be forced to watch "Who Moved My Cheese". It's a great little short movie that can be applied in so many ways. Here are some quotes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese

Who Moved My Cheese! features four characters; two mice, "Sniff" and "Scurry", and two little people, miniature humans in essence, "Hem" and "Haw", live in a maze, a representation of one's environment, and look for cheese, representative of happiness and success. Initially without cheese, each group, the mice and humans paired off, travel the lengthy corridor searching for cheese. One day both groups happen upon a cheese-filled corridor in "Cheese Station C". Content with their find, the humans establish routines around their daily intake of cheese slowly becoming arrogant in the process.

One day Sniff and Scurry arrive at Cheese Station C to find no cheese left; they, however, are not surprised. Noticing the cheese supply dwindling, they have mentally prepared for the arduous, but inevitable task of finding more cheese beforehand. Leaving Cheese Station C behind, they begin their hunt for new cheese together. Later that day, Hem and Haw arrive at Cheese Station C only to find the same thing, no cheese. Angered and annoyed, Hem demands "who moved my cheese?". Unprepared, the humans have counted on the cheese supply to be constant. After verifying that the cheese is indeed gone and ranting at the unfairness of the situation, both head home hungry. Returning the next day, Hem and Haw find the same cheeseless station. Beginning to realize the situation at hand, Haw proposes a search for new cheese, but Hem, dead set in his victimized mindset, nixes the proposal.

Meanwhile, Sniff and Scurry have found "Cheese Station N", a new supply of cheese. Back at Cheese Station C, Hem and Haw, affected by their lack of cheese, blame each other for their predicament. Hoping to change, Haw again proposes a search for new cheese. Hem however, comforted by his old routine and afraid of the unknown, again knocks down the idea. After many days in denial, including a search for cheese behind the wall of Cheese Station C, the humans remain without cheese. One day, realizing his debilitating fear, Haw begins laughing at the situation. Realizing he should move on, Haw enters the maze, but not before chiseling "If You Do Not Change, You Can Become Extinct" on the wall of Cheese Station C for his friend to ponder.

Still fearful of his trek, Haw jots "What Would You Do If You Weren't Afraid?" on the wall and, after thinking about it, begins his journey. Still with worry, perhaps he has waited too long to begin his search, Haw finds some scattered cheese and continues his search. Slowly losing his denial, Haw realizes that the cheese has not suddenly disappeared, but has dwindled from continual eating, and that the older cheese was not as tasty and had been moldy. After a let down, an empty cheese station, Haw begins worrying about the unknown again. Brushing aside his fears, Haw's new mindset allows him to again enjoy life; he has even begun to smile again and is realizing "when you move beyond your fear, you feel free." After another empty cheese station, Haw decides to go back for Hem with the few bits of new cheese he has managed to find.

Uncompromising, Hem turns away the new cheese to his friend's dismay. With knowledge acquired along the way, Haw heads back into the maze. Still going deeper into the maze, impelled by bits of new cheese here and there, Haw leaves a trail of writings on the wall, hopeful that his friend will be aided by them in his search for new cheese. Still traveling, Haw one day comes across Cheese Station N. Abundant with cheese, some varieties strange to him, he has found what he is looking for. After eating, Haw reflects on his experience. Pondering a return to his old friend, Haw decides to let Hem find his own way. Finding the largest wall in Cheese Station N, he writes:

Change Happens
They Keep Moving The Cheese
Anticipate Change
Get Ready For The Cheese To Move
Monitor Change
Smell The Cheese Often So You Know When It Is Getting Old
Adapt To Change Quickly
The Quicker You Let Go Of Old Cheese, The Sooner You Can Enjoy New Cheese
Change
Move With The Cheese
Enjoy Change!
Savor The Adventure And Enjoy The Taste Of New Cheese!
Be Ready To Change Quickly And Enjoy It Again & Again
They Keep Moving The Cheese.

Cautious from past experience, Haw inspects Cheese Station N daily and explores different parts of the maze to prevent complacency from setting in. After hearing movement in the maze one day, Haw realizes someone is approaching the station. Unsure, Haw hopes that it is his friend Hem who has found the way.

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Mr.Vanvandenburg · Apr 11, 2007

My guess estimate of Prius Ni use is that it is miniscule at best. Look at all the cordless tools whose battery packs last only 2-3 years and are put in the trash. Made in China. Toyota says the battery is not being replaced significantly, if at all, yet. Ni is also alloyed in many metals used in huge quantities. The whole world is extremely wasteful of resources, nothing new.

The Prius is still a car, it will respond to driving styles, waste is waste. It will get about double the average 4 cyl sedan in mixed driving in my experience. The Prius is a huge leap forward as an efficient gasoline car. I am getting 51-52 first 500 miles. I can already see at a steady 60-62 on a smooth flat road mileage will be about 55-60+, maybe better. I am amazed at Toys. engineering to achieve this feat using gas power. Pretending there is an egg under the gas peddle.

So that is what I would say to them, but of course it really doesn't matter what they think. It is because they didn't buy one yet and are expecting something magic, which it isn't.

The only thing I want more in mine is a softer ride, not used to firm ride after Q45. I would like to put a wider, softer tire on someday. I am reducing my air pressure to the 35/33 value, as it came from the dealer with 38 all around, too harsh for my taste. I think the car is great for my purpose. The electric steering takes getting used to, it is so so quick, and is an improvement over the hydraulic rack and pinion, which in turn improved on the recirc ball system.

PriusBoyAZ · Apr 11, 2007

Blind belief in heresay to support an argument is irrational and rooted in insecurity. I think these "Prius haters" aren't out to hate the Prius, per se, but are looking for a way to rationalize their own wasteful behavior in front of those who have chosen to effect change in their lives, and ultimately, the world. I'd guess that they would exhibit the same behavior if the topic was about solar panels on your roof, wind energy, or energy conserving appliances.

I minimize my resource usage, changed out all of my home's stock appliances to highly energy efficient ones, and bought a Prius -- all in an effort to reduce my carbon footprint. The opposite end of the spectrum is someone who doesn't believe global warming exists, or if he does, dismisses attempts by people to address the situation as "marketing hype".

There is a great series out on DVD called "30 Days" by Morgan Spurlock. One of the episodes revolves around placing two wasteful people from the heart of Manhatten into an organic, green, vegan commune out in the countryside for 30 days. The net result? One person wanted to effect change in many aspects of her life, while the other said "I think I'll buy a fluorescent light bulb". It took 30 days in an environmental commune where they recycle their own feces to determine that he would invest in a fluorescent light bulb.

Every person experiences inertia towards change, some more than others.

First Personal Prius-Bashing Experience

SunnyvalePrius New Member

bredekamp Member

larkinmj New Member

charliem New Member

cireecnop1 New Member

robincx "Fear is the mind killer"

MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

hill High Fiber Member

rudiger Active Member

ekpolk What could possibly...

richard schumacher shortbus driver

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

ekpolk What could possibly...

larkinmj New Member

Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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First Personal Prius-Bashing Experience

SunnyvalePrius New Member

bredekamp Member

larkinmj New Member

charliem New Member

cireecnop1 New Member

robincx "Fear is the mind killer"

MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

hill High Fiber Member

rudiger Active Member

ekpolk What could possibly...

richard schumacher shortbus driver

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

ekpolk What could possibly...

larkinmj New Member

Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

PriusBoyAZ New Member