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First Testdrive Lexus GS 450h

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Nomax, Feb 1, 2006.

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  1. Nomax

    Nomax New Member

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    Looking good:

    - fuel consumption: 33.1 miles/gallon(US)

    - six virtual gear steps with tiptronic

    - 3000 cars to be sold in Europe 2006

    - 3.5 l ICE optimized to run in optimal load condition

    - very low noise driving
     
    #1 Nomax, Feb 1, 2006
  2. benighted

    benighted New Member

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    Virtual gear steps? I don't get it. Gear steps make a car "feel" faster but why add a flaw that has been otherwise eliminated?
     
    #2 benighted, Feb 1, 2006
  3. Nomax

    Nomax New Member

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    It seems it's only software. In the car magazine they say... with the tiptronic the car can be manually forced (..fixed...) to run with a predefined rev range. (...gear ratio...)

    As I understand it, you have the choice and not the computers alone = more fun to drive !




     
    #3 Nomax, Feb 1, 2006
  4. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

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    hopefully you can turn it on and off
     
    #4 flareak, Feb 1, 2006
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    it's just like the Nissan Murano here. It has a CVT with 7 "virtual" gears to simulate a regular transmission so that the morons can "shift" and make themselves feel good cause they can drive a manual.
     
    #5 Tideland Prius, Feb 1, 2006
  6. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    I believe it is based on normal Six-Speed Sequential-Shift Automatic.
    The Lexus GS 450h does not come with THS-II or HSD, and it'll be a new type of hybrid system.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #6 ken1784, Feb 1, 2006
  7. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

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    isn't tiptronic an Audi thing?
     
    #7 flareak, Feb 1, 2006
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    That's what I thought but didn't the press release say it will use the PSD?

    flareak, yeah that's what VW AG calls it semi-automatic

    Acura - Sequential Sportshift
    BMW - Steptronic
    Hyundai - Shifttronic
    Mercedes - Touchshift?
    Toyota - Multi-mode sequential shift
     
    #8 Tideland Prius, Feb 1, 2006
  9. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Found a press release for Tokyo Motor Show.
    http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?...YT2005102028308

    --- quote ---
    The GS450h
    A premium sedan with a new hybrid system especially developed for front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layouts and aimed at achieving new levels of superior environmental and driving performance befitting a luxury vehicle
    [snip]
    • An electronically controlled, six-speed automatic transmission relays the power in this rear-drive vehicle.
    --- end quote ---

    Ken@Japan
     
    #9 ken1784, Feb 1, 2006
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Interesting.. cause that was the original intent... here's my source:

    "For immediate release
    January 19, 2006

    Lexus unveils the 2007 GS 450h at the Montreal International Auto Show The world’s first luxury hybrid sedan combines performance, power and style

    (TORONTO, Ontario) – Lexus today gave Canadian drivers their first look at the next generation in luxury cars, unveiling the all-new 2007 Lexus GS 450h hybrid luxury sedan at the Montreal International Auto Show.

    "The GS 450h is the world’s first passenger car that combines luxury
    features with hybrid power, performance and fuel efficiency," explained
    Stuart Payne, Director for Lexus in Canada. "It’s also the first full-hybrid in the world to feature a front engine and rear wheel drive. As
    such, the GS 450h is a ground-breaking vehicle, representing the next
    generation of luxury sedans."

    Lexus has incorporated many performance, styling and safety features into the 2007 GS 450h.

    Power
    The GS 450h features the Hybrid Synergy Drive (HSD) powertrain. It
    includes a 3.5-litre V6 engine and high torque electric motor that combine to deliver 335 horsepower at 6,200 rpm – for performance equivalent to a 4.5-litre V8. This system is engaged through the Lexus Electronic Throttle Control System with intelligence (ETCS-i), and delivers power to the P245/40R18 performance summer radials mounted on unique 18-inch alloys via an Electronically-controlled Continuously Variable Transmission (ECVT). The V6 gasoline engine also features Lexus’ innovative combined direct and port fuel injection. The overall result is quick yet smooth acceleration from 0-100 km/h in less than six seconds, with compact sedan fuel economy and a Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle (SULEV) emissions rating...."

    Edit: Here's the link

    http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t117519.html
     
    #10 Tideland Prius, Feb 2, 2006
  11. vincent1449p

    vincent1449p Active Member

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    Hi Tideland Prius,

    I think you are assuming ECVT must equate to PSD, that is not always true.

    Remember, PSD needs to have 3 components connected to the Sun, Carrier and Ring. Please note that GS 450h has only ONE motor, so it can't be PSD, right?

    Vincent
     
    #11 vincent1449p, Feb 2, 2006
  12. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Maybe, they changed their strategy this year.
    Will see the real story in a few month.

    Ken@Japan
     
    #12 ken1784, Feb 2, 2006
  13. Nomax

    Nomax New Member

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    It remains a mystery:


    this is the original german article:

    ams

    2nd page

    ams2

    Translation: ... the gear has a speciality... it provides six virtual gear steps which can be chosen by a tiptronic....making it possible to keep the gear / rev ratio fixed in a certain range....

    On the other hand there is no word about a second e-motor/ generator....

    Some more Translation: ...... the Lexus R&D Engineer drove with the 450h full speed on a steep uphill german Autobahn nearby City of Trier....they tried to squeaze the juice out of the batteries....not possible...there was always enough batt energy (SOC) avaiable....

    The 3.5 ice is heavily optimized to function as hybrid powersource...it uses extreme VVti (variable yalve) timings.....

    No idling...ice tries alway to run under load ...or shuts off...giving excellent energy effiency...

    The combustion is reduced to only 50% at ice start up...providing perfect smooth power flow between electrical and ice power...


    sorry for translation or spelling mistakes...


    Nomax
     
    #13 Nomax, Feb 2, 2006
  14. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    It doesn't necessarily have to be HSD as it's currently known either. What does Toyota call the mild system that they use in the Crown hybrid?

    If they want these hybrids to compete against BMW/Audi a mild system is going to make more sense as ultimately that's the only way to offer a hybrid with a stick shift.
     
    #14 Jonnycat26, Feb 2, 2006
  15. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    The Toyota mild hybrid system is called THS-M.
    http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/01/0612.html

    FYI,
    THS...1997 Prius
    THS-C...2001 Estima minivan, later Alphard minivan
    THS-II or HSD...2003 Prius II, later Highlander Hybrid and Lexus RX400h.
    http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/ths2/index.html

    Ken@Japan
     
    #15 ken1784, Feb 2, 2006
  16. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    #16 Jonnycat26, Feb 2, 2006
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Interesting, that's a good point Jonny. Also it seems power isn't as high as it could be. A total output of 335hp when the 3.5 litre alone could've produced at leaast 306hp (in IS form. It has been said the 3.5 litre could produce even more than 306hp but the IS wouldn't be able to handle it). We'll see how efficient it is.
     
    #17 Tideland Prius, Feb 2, 2006
  18. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    But the engine is probably converted to Atkinson cycle, if "heavily optimized to function as hybrid powersource...it uses extreme VVti (variable shaft) timings" means what I think it means.

    The Prius engine produces only 76hp, compared to the 108hp of its conventional 1.5 litre sibling.

    Still, who the hell needs a 330hp car? Are Toyota ever going to produce another sensible hybrid?
     
    #18 KMO, Feb 2, 2006
  19. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    Maybe, but not likely. The HH and HX400 are otto cycle engines, rather than atkinson cycle. I think that Toyota is using atkinson with 4 cylinder engines for cars with an emphasis on economy, which I don't think this car is going for.
     
    #19 Jonnycat26, Feb 2, 2006
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Nope, this car is for those who want the GS430's power but would like to experience hybrid technology and at the same time save some money at the pumps compared to the V8 sibling. It's unlikely they'll make the 3.5 litre engine run on the Atkinson cycle.

    KMO, extreme VVT-i? perhaps that's dual VVT-i? I mean Toyota's going all out with this engine. Besides, it has to compete with the Germans so if they can get this kind of power without the economy of the comparable German car, people are going to notice and will be willing to try.
     
    #20 Tideland Prius, Feb 2, 2006
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