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Fixing Elections

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by airportkid, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    Most election reform ideas have at their core some type of restriction on finance, and as a consequence smack headlong into freedom of speech. Putting any kind of lid on political contributions inescapably damps free speech.

    The problem, however, isn't the finance, it's the whoring. The bribery. The outright purchase of political favors, access and influence.

    There's a very simple cure for this. It's this:

    Anyone can contribute any amount they want to any candidate or party.

    However, it would be a capital offense for a candidate or party to ever learn who their benefactors are. All donations have enforced anonymity.


    This means, of course, that no one could ever write a check payable to the Democratic Party, or to Joe Candidate - the check would have to be made payable to a clearing house of some kind, and accompanied by instructions as to whose pot it should go into. And some means would have to be worked out that would honestly and accurately inform a contributor that his money did indeed go to the pot he intended. Who runs the clearing house, and how, are details that can be worked out.

    But it would become a capital crime for a contributor to inform a political beneficiary of his donation, and it would become a capital crime for any political beneficiary to find out, whether it tried to or not.



    Human nature being what it is, such a system would have its corruptors. One such corruption would be donations with 8 or more significant digits, like $432,781.19, where the amount would be quietly communicated and thus benefactor and beneficiary secretly be made known to each other. That particular corruption could be staunched by simply making it illegal to donate any amount with more than 2 significant digits. But the ingenuity of the devious mind knows no limits and other corruptions are possible.

    Nonetheless, a system that at least makes those who would corrupt it liable to punishment would be infinitely better than the open whoring we've got now.



    What are your thoughts on the subject?



    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  2. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    Man, THAT was a lead balloon.
    I'll just give it a blast of helium ...
     
  3. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Jan 29 2007, 07:00 PM) [snapback]382602[/snapback]</div>
    I see a problem here: If you don't like a candidate you send him a contribution for $1 and then you send him an annonymous letter informing him that so-and-so had donated $1 to him. Under the above provision, that candidate would be executed.

    Come to think of it, maybe that's not such a bad idea after all. All the politicians would be executed, and everybody would be afraid to run for office and government would disappear. The whithering away of the state.

    Seriously, you have addressed only half the problem: The buying of the candidate's support for a specific legislating agenda by lobbyists.

    The other half is the use of big money to buy campaign ads by groups who want to get politicians of known leanings into office.

    I prefer a different approach: Free speech is not absolute and never has been. The old bit about crying "Fire!" in a crowded theater. I would place campaign advertising in the same category and outlaw it entirely. Instead give every candidate half an hour on TV every week for the 2 months before the election, and every day for the week before, plus a column in each city's major newspaper on the same schedule. And then severe prison terms for anyone violating the restriction on political advertising.
     
  4. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    I've got a better idea.

    No money at all.

    Not to candidates. Not to political parties. Not to any for anything remotely political. Not candidates, not issues.

    Each candidate gets the same set amount of money to run. Oh, and you can't use any of your own money. So everyone has only, say $10,000. That's it. No commercials, no advertising, no mailers, no flyers. With those restrictinos $10,000 should be plenty. Pretty much just to support you as you go around shaking hands and making speeches during a SHORT campaign. Make it work.

    As for the propositions, you read the for and against in the voters pamphlet and that's it. No commecials, no advertising, no mailers, no flyers.

    What we need is as even a playing field as possible. So newspapers and TV news better be VERY careful what "news" they report.
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I agree with Godiva on the no-money part. But in a nation our size, personally shaking hands and giving unreported speeches is insufficient to allow all the voters to learn about a candidate.

    That's why I advocate limited and equal TV time and newspaper space to all candidates. TV time, however, may not be used for produced commercials. It may only be used to show the candidate speaking. Debates should also be held and televised and reported as printed transcripts in the newspaper. But every debate must allow every candidate for the office in question to participate.
     
  6. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    Godiva & Daniel, thanks for trying to keep this iron clinker of a topic aloft but the fact that it keeps diving for the earth's center faster than Jules Verne I think itself is a very telling commentary on how likely any kind of election reform will ever see the light of day.

    I agree with both of you completely that truly effective election reform would have ALL money removed: it's a civic responsibility fer gawdsakes and public utilities such as broadcasters should be required to devote some broadcast time to the public interest PRO BONO.

    But I made the suggestion I made because that sort of genuine reform would be as difficult to accomplish as staging a full constitutional convention, whereas simply leaving things as they are but only knocking out a beneficiary's ability to know who his contributors are seemed something actually doable without having to tamper with the constitution.

    It's not an idea that would be gratefully embraced, of course, achieving anything like it would take considerable battle, so to speak. And, as I said in the 1st paragraph, since this topic can't even keep itself in the air for five minutes on a chatboard with a wide liberal audience, even the very idea of reform of any kind might be doomed from the outset.

    Depressing, that.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  7. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Where we agree, is that meaningful election reform is very unlikely. But I think a reform that punishes candidates for finding out who their contributors are (even if the punishment were less draconian than you suggest) is less likely than real financial reform, because the lawmakers are themselves perennial candidates, and they're not going to pass a law that could punish them.

    Bottom line: With the exception of the occasional socialist revolution, governments have always been run by the rich for the benefit of the rich. In the 18th century someone decided that democracy was the morally correct way to run a country, so the rich had to come up with mechanisms that would allow them to keep their power while giving the people the impression that leaders were being popularly chosen. To give credit where credit is due, they have built a system that assures their control over government while leaving the majority of the population fooled into thinking they have a real say in public matters. No small achievement.
     
  8. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 2 2007, 10:55 AM) [snapback]384398[/snapback]</div>
    I think that is true moreso when there is a Democratic President like Clinton - he fooled everyone :lol:

    Who was that someone btw who decided on democracy in the 18th century - i missed that one in history class? Would you have preferred sharia law or perhaps monarcy rule?

    And how do they do that with fooling the people on election day that they actually voted for the winner or the loser? Do you think the moon landings were fake too?

    And finally, I guess you are assuming the elections last year were meaningless - I mean with the Dems taking control of the Congress. That could be true given their lack of conviction and honesty.