Floyd Landis Doping???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ Jul 27 2006, 08:32 AM) [snapback]293190[/snapback]</div>

Well, it he tested higher than normal testesterone, which is a substance not known in France B)

 

I'm hoping it's an organized conspiracy that was ready to make him look like he failed, just in case he won.

The disdain for American cyclists being so thick and all...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jul 27 2006, 09:32 AM) [snapback]293229[/snapback]</div>

Okay Doc, what is the difference between high levels and normal levels of testesterone for a highly developed athlere like Landis?

Can it rise naturally to that level?

I have no idea, just have questions...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikepaul @ Jul 27 2006, 09:43 AM) [snapback]293240[/snapback]</div>

Mais non!!

Sacre bleu, Etats Unis est , merde!!

 

It's whether you are within a certain ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone.

"Under World Anti-Doping Agency regulations, a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone greater than 4:1 is considered a positive result and subject to investigation. The threshold was recently lowered from 6:1. The most likely natural ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in humans is 1:1."
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2531225

He still has his "B" sample to be tested...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HappyPig @ Jul 27 2006, 03:46 PM) [snapback]293358[/snapback]</div>

So, we either end up with yet another pro athlete who cheats or testing which just can't be trusted. The fans lose either way.

 

The problem is that people are weak and the payoffs are increasingly enormous. The problem with professional athletics is that there is way too much interest. People that can bat little balls around are demi-gods and loaded with cash. Unless that changes these sorts of problems will persist. The reason that these people are competeing is because they're amibitious, talented, and extremely competitive. The temptation must be enormous for them. There also the game theory of drug use in these populations. Probably also a lot of hidden pressure to use drugs to enhance performance.

Perhaps they should require the drugs to compete. Make all of the competitors test POSITIVE for all kinds of crazy s**t thereby leveling the playing field. Sure, the athletes would all be dead by age 50 but we'd be entertained.

 

Landis was given a cortisone injection into his hip before the tour started. I wonder if the drug's subsequent metabolism altered the current results. His prior testing results would be very interesting to see.

 

It is interesting to note that there is no measurable min-max range of testesterone (milligram per milliliter or whatever); all the test checks is the ratio, so, as suggested, if the cortisone depressed the amount of epitestesterone, then the ratio could be skewed.

 

One other factoid that circumstantially argues against Landis' doping: Each day the yellow jersey is tested, and although we do not know the quantitative results, we know Landis passed each of his leader days. So unless there was an upward trend that just broke threshold on the last day of the tour, Landis would have had to injected the anabolic steroid within 48 hours of the test. But AFAIK, anabolic steroids take weeks or months to have effects on exercise physiology, and so there would have been no reason to abuse it.

I get the distinct impression that in Europe, once a test comes up positive, the rider is guilty until he can prove himself innocent. Certainly a foreign notion to americans, and one I personally find problematic. I would prefer resonable certainty by expert commitee, but it seems like lawyers, politics and money have closed that choice off.

 

It's money and pride. Armstrong was under a lot of scrutiny too, if you recall, but as it turns out, he's just a hell of a cyclist, and probably has a natural edge in endurance sport.

Everyone wants the cash, not just prize money, but endorsements, and all the rest that follows, but I also have a feeling that more than a few people in France have had their pride hurt by American(s) winning the Tour repeatedly.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Jul 28 2006, 10:11 AM) [snapback]293866[/snapback]</div>

Uh, let's rephrase:

How about, the failure of the French 'home' team to win their home race.

Here is a plan:

Forget France and the Alps:

how about "

'Tour of the Americas'

 

It was tried, and flopped.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 28 2006, 09:35 AM) [snapback]293854[/snapback]</div>

You are 100% correct!

They have reported that it was the ratio that was off and that his testosterone level was actaully normal. (Nice how the mass media has managed to miss the distinction)

His Epitestosterone was very low...and they are confused on how this has happened.

Also, in order for him to have seen any advantage from testosterone doping, they have said he would have had to use it for weeks or months....and all of his prior tests were normal.

I think that because of this unique condition, where the ratio is increased for a reason other then actual increased testosterone, he has a great chance of being vindicated.

 

There was an article in our local paper.

Some things it mentioned.

There is now an oral steroid that flushes out of the system within 48 hours. I don't know the effects of taking it.

Landis apparently takes Thyroid for a medical condition. Don't know if this would effect anything being tested.

Landis says that his reputation will never recover from this, even if he is exonerated. Very sad, but I think he's right.

"American cyclist Floyd Landis denied that he cheated to win the Tour de France, but said Thursday that his career will forever be stained by his positive test for high testosterone during the sport's premiere event.

"Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever going to go away no matter what happens next," Landis said during a teleconference."

"I think there's a good possibility I'll clear my name," Landis said. "Regardless of whether this happens or not, I don't know if this will ever go away."

Landis denies cheating

"Landis is still awaiting results from a backup sample, which would clear him immediately if found to be negative. But his lawyer, Luis Sanz, said he fully expected the backup test to come back with the same result, because the testosterone imbalance was produced naturally by Landis's body."

I'd like to know where the information is about the ratio being off and the testosterone level being normal. I can't find that anywhere.

This is all I can find:

"He does not have a high level of testosterone. That's not been documented. He has a high ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in his urine," Landis' personal physician, Dr. Brent Kay, said Friday night on CNN's "Larry King Live."

"Which could be due to an elevated testosterone level. It could be due to a low epitestosterone level. And it could be due to a variety of other factors with handling and specimen contamination and various other things."

As to the conspiracy theory. It may not be that far fetched:

"Secondly, I can't help but be aware the lab that found this suspicious reading is the same one that was at the center of the 'L'Equipe affair."

The French newspaper, L'Equipe, said samples taken from Armstrong during the 1999 Tour de France and then frozen tested positive for the blood-booster EPO. The International Cycling Union commissioned a report that later cleared Armstrong of the doping allegations.

"When an independent investigator contacted the lab, they wouldn't answer the simplest of questions, wouldn't go into their testing ethics, who did the tests, etc., etc.," Armstrong said. "I don't personally have a ton of faith in that lab. I think they should lose their authorization and the report pretty much supports that."

Landis says he'll prove his innocence.

This is the article in the local paper.