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Fob in pocket or 'ignition'?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by slmcdonald7, Sep 24, 2004.

  1. slmcdonald7

    slmcdonald7 New Member

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    Hi all,
    My wife and I recently received our new Prius (package 7) and I have a question I thought you all could help with.
    The dealership where we bought our Prius was staffed with some of the dumbest people I have ever met, and as such, the only correct information they told us about our car was that it was a Prius, all other verbal specifications were wrong.
    Would anyone know:
    We were told that with the package 7 you had to insert your key into the "ignition" in order to drive the car, and we did so until we figured that we would try it without, just to see what happened. To our surprise, the package 7 didn't need the key in the ignition, just in the car.
    Now I am curious... why even have the ignition? Does putting your fob in the ignition have any benefits? Does it decrease your fob battery life to drive with it in your pocket?

    Any and all help is apprecieated,
    Stephen
     
    #1 slmcdonald7, Sep 24, 2004
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    The fob slot is a back-up for the SKS (smart Key system). Should the battery in your fob die you can still drive the car with the fob in the slot. Also, it's often easier to use the valet instruction cars and tell the valet or car wash guy or whoever to just put the key in the slot rather than go through the intricacies of the SKS.

    I don't think it extends battery life to use the slot, but maybe it would a little over a long period of time. Still, the convenience of the SKS makes it worth replacing a battery a little earlier worth it. Take that from someone who's been without his smart system in his Prius for a week now and abhors it!! BTW, you do know you don't need to unlock or lock the car with the fob--right?
     
    #2 efusco, Sep 24, 2004
  3. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    Just remember when you take your car in for service to put the fob in the slot instead of walking away with the fob in your pocket like i did LOL.
     
    #3 paprius4030, Sep 24, 2004
  4. Batavier

    Batavier Member

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    Too bad the battery doesn't get charged when it's in the slot. Certain BMWs have that feature.
     
    #4 Batavier, Sep 24, 2004
  5. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    Also, just to be clear (and pedantic): Prius models without the Smart Key system do need to put the fob in the ignition.

    BTW -- I'm renting a non-smart key Prius this weekend, and it appears (though I need to research this better) that approaching the car and pressing the "unlock" button on the fob does not unlock the trunk. I have to open the driver door, do "unlock all", and then go back and open the trunk.

    I am probably missing something, but if I'm not -- that makes the SKS system worth its price right there! (My on-order AM #7 (or #4, whatever) Prius has SKS.)
     
    #5 bookrats, Sep 24, 2004
  6. jimofdg

    jimofdg New Member

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    You guys are great! I had just posted this issue on another board.

    My first Prius demo (to non-relatives) was Wednesday night, to an engineer. He immediately stumped me with the issue of whether I would prolong the smart key's battery if I put it in the slot.

    I wanted to say the car and key stop communicating once the car starts. We know this from the people who have waved goodbye to a spouse with the key in their pocket (not the spouse's). The car continues to run until the marooned spouse shuts it off.

    But when does the smart key's battery go to sleep?
     
    #6 jimofdg, Sep 24, 2004
  7. Marg

    Marg New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bookrats\";p=\"41438)</div>
    In our car (Canadian basic model) pressing on the "unlock" picture once gets the driver's door open. Pressing it twice quickly opens all doors, including the hatch.
     
    #7 Marg, Sep 24, 2004
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jimofdg\";p=\"41442)</div>
    AFAIK, the smart key's battery emits a continuous signal...it never 'sleeps'. When it is inside the car the Prius internal oscillator will stop sensing for it after about 10 minutes.

    What I'm not certain about is if there is increased drain on the fob while it is 'communicating' or not...I suspect that it does not...rather it emits continuous signal regardless.
     
    #8 efusco, Sep 24, 2004
  9. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marg\";p=\"41444)</div>
    I'm sure that'll do it, Marg -- thank you for the information! (Doesn't make sense to not be able to unlock it without SKS.)
     
    #9 bookrats, Sep 24, 2004
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I'd like to correct/update my response:

    Ok, I looked this up in the technical manuals.

    When you press the "POWER" button in the Prius the 'room oscillator' turns on seeking the transmitter (your fob). Once the signal hits the transmitter the transmitter/fob transmits it's security code back to the Prius.

    This is a one time transmission and thus only one brief drain on the transmitter/fob.

    If a transmitter/fob is within range of the 'door oscillators it's a different scenario. Where the 'room oscillator' shuts off once it recieves the code from the fob, the 'door oscillators' remain on continuously while the doors are locked. Once unlocked it'll stop sensing. Thus, if the fob is in range of the active door oscillator and remains there it will continuously transmit the security code data until the battery drains or the door is unlocked and thus can drain the fob battery much more quickly than otherwise.

    A small aside. The door oscillator sensing frequency can be changed from the default 300hz to 150 or 900. That's the number of times per minute it sends out a code looking for your smart key fob. The higher the rate the faster it drains you 12v battery. Thus, again, why you should turn off the SKS when you'll be away from your car....now, however, I wonder if it matters if you're leaving your car unlocked if it makes any difference since the door oscillators should be off if the doors are unlocked.

    Another aside. The hatch oscillator is only activated by depressing the button in the handle on the hatch.
     
    #10 efusco, Sep 24, 2004
  11. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    So that's why the hatch never unlocks till I try to open it!
     
    #11 paprius4030, Sep 24, 2004
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Dang it, now I'm finding some conflicting info that makes sense.

    The room oscillator also detects the fob when it enters the detection zone inside the car (before hitting power). I think this may request a registration code from the fob, but can't tell for sure from what I'm reading. This is the detector that shuts off automatically after about 10 minutes too, I think.

    If you get in your car with your smart key, just sit in there reading for 10-15 minutes, without opening the door again, then try to start the car, it won't work. Usually you have to put the key in the slot or leave the car with the fob for a while and reenter to get it to work.

    I don't know if the fob transmits back that entire time or not...I suspect it might. I also don't know if the same thing happens when the car is running (Ready mode) and causes the fob to transmit that 10 minutes or if it shuts off upon start up....probably shuts off I'd bet since there's no other need for it.
     
    #12 efusco, Sep 24, 2004
  13. Steve Goldenberg

    Steve Goldenberg New Member

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    I was able to reset the unlocking so that all five doors (including the hatch) unlock automatically. It was an option I set when I first got the car and it has survived two ECU updates.
     
    #13 Steve Goldenberg, Sep 25, 2004
  14. peart75

    peart75 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"41501)</div>
    my car beeps when i walk out w/ the fob and the power elft on. there must be some oscillator that is ALWAYS on to sense this action. no?

    -drew
     
    #14 peart75, Sep 25, 2004
  15. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"41446)</div>
    When I had my Smart Entry/Smart Start turned on, I had three instances of what I think was my fob communicating with things that weren't my car! When I was in the local Walmart, a phone went "bip" when I walked next to it. Then, when I was in the parking lot, another car "bipped" at me (it could have been the driver unlocking it, but I didn't see anyone around). I didn't really think anything about these two instances until I walked into the local animal shelter where I do volunteer work, and something started going "BEEP BEEP BEEP!" I thought they had installed some kind of alarm. But it was a cell phone that was on the desk next to the door.

    These may all just be coincidences, as could be the fact that this was before I turned SE/ST off.
     
    #15 Kathryn, Sep 26, 2004
  16. Batavier

    Batavier Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Steve Goldenberg\";p=\"41618)</div>
    My Preto Prius unlocks all doors when I press the 'unlock' button on the fob. Like Steve said, you can ask the dealer to change this.
     
    #16 Batavier, Sep 28, 2004
  17. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    Why would turning off the SE/SS system in the car affect the fob? I'm not sure that just because the car isn't looking for the fob, that the fob becomes inactive.

    I have a question: why oh WHY would you want to turn it off (and still be using the car as opposed to going on vacation)? I found it most annoying last night when I got home, pushed on the house door handle and it didn't open. It was locked. Wife and kids were home so I expected it to be unlocked. Had to get the keys out of my pocket. Geez, I need an SE front door. How quickly I get spoiled!
     
    #17 bruceha_2000, Sep 28, 2004
  18. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    Because I can!
    Actually, on my previous car, I had to do the old "key in the lock" thing, and for every door. I didn't even have auto windows. So for some reason the action of hitting that fob button from afar and having the car lock or unlock seems like "I have the power"! Having the car automatically know I'm there is strange! :silly: (Though once I get used to using the fob for a while, I'll probably go back to SE).

    Also, I read in the manual that having SE on drains power from the battery. It's probably an insignificant amount, but nonetheless unnecessary, and the manual's stating that SE should be turned off if leaving the car for an "extended period of time" was rather vague. If I have to leave my car at the airport for 5 days, will it drain too much? Do they mean not driving it for months at a time? (And something about the car sending out intermittant signals looking for the fob...doesn't that sound a little sad? :mrgreen: )

    (I know all you techies are probably rolling your eyes at this neo-luddite!)

    I do know what you mean about being spoiled though. Even with my somewhat primitive fob use, I've caught myself a couple of times expecting my office door and my front door to open with the push of a button.

    Now if they could come out with an implantable SE system (or, better, a Prius tattoo that somehow has the SE fob codes in it, since having a Prius tattoo on my rear is a more pleasant prospect than having a chip implanted in my brain..though it could be like those microchips that they put in dogs and cats, and be implanted elsewhere) that would open all our doors, THAT I would keep on all the time!
     
    #18 Kathryn, Sep 28, 2004
  19. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    Yep, it is. I keep thinking I'm forgetting something when I get out of the car. When I came out of the grocery store last night, my hand headed for my pocket. It might take awhile to overcome 32 years of 'training' :)
    2 weeks is the very safe number I've heard. Won't happen overnight or if you go away for the weekend. Even the dome light will turn off after awhile if you don't close one of the doors tight :) That will come in handy as I have gone out in the morning a few time over the last few years to find that one of my kids hadn't closed the door AT ALL! I have since learned to check.
    I try not to anthropromorphize ;-)
    There was a thread about a month back specifically discussing if people would do that, were it available.
     
    #19 bruceha_2000, Sep 28, 2004
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