For Liberal's, Lefties and Democrats ONLY!

stale topic. next!

 

I'm getting pretty tired of assumptions that just because someone is a Democrat, a liberal or to the left they are godless and/or a traitor.

I'm a Lutheran and am strong in my faith.

I'm as patriotic as the next person.

What I am NOT is a blind follower. I am informed. I think for myself.

What I don't do is focus all of my decisions around me me me what is best for ME. I actually think of what is best for all, even if I might be inconvenienced or even if I don't entirely agree. For instance I am for choice although I, personally, would never get an abortion. I don't think I have the right to make certain decisions for other people.

So patriotic, Christian, liberal here.

And what Teddy Roosevelt said:

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918

 

Amen, Godiva. Amen.

When will the right wingers figure out that we are at church, as well? That we pray, that we worship, that we have faith?

But if a person does not, that is okay, too. It's their choice. I don't force my religious beliefs on anyone else, and I don't want them to force their beliefs on me.

Nate

 

That's actually a bit of a tough question for me. I'm an Atheist (yes, I'm one of the Liberal Atheists). That's my religion and faith. Obviously though, I don't belong to a church. I went ahead and picked no, because that's probably more in the spirit of the question. But just so you know, Atheists (some, not all) have faith too.

Oh, and I've got no problem with other religions, just don't expect me to follow them. Pray in school all you want, keep your God in the Pledge, it doesn't bother me. I'll just keep quiet and bored through your prayer and skip that phrase of the Pledge.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jun 9 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]268690[/snapback]</div>

This is exactly what Thomas Jefferson thought when he framed the Declaration of Independence. It was such a novel idea at that time since most governments then where church-states. It's really what made America different and unique. It's why people want to come here today. I just wish the religous right would understand this.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jtullos @ Jun 9 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]268696[/snapback]</div>

Agreed.

 

I am an atheist AND I go to church. I belong to a Unitarian Universalist church. The UU philosophy is that everyone is entitled to do their own intellectual or spiritual exploration and discover their own faith or beliefs. That might be hard to grasp for the fundamentalists who want to cram their beliefs down the throats of the rest of us.

I don't believe in God (not in the familiar sense of the word, anyway; I do believe that there is something greater than all of us; call it the collective humanity or whatever) , or that Jesus was anything more than a man who said some pretty righteous things (too bad that many "Christians" don't follow them- and I deliberately put "Christians" in quotes because many Christians I know are decent, compassionate people- as well as "liberal".) But I respect the right of others to do so. Just don't attempt to impose your beliefs regarding same-sex marriage, abortion rights, contraception, intelligent design, etc. on those of us aren't part of your faith. And I have no tolerance for right-wingers who preach a philosophy of hate, intolerance, and selfishness and then, when they are criticized for it, whine about "Christian-bashing."

 

What do I vote if I'm not "religious," I don't go to church, but I "have faith?"

One out of three?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Jun 9 2006, 03:03 PM) [snapback]268729[/snapback]</div>

So how exactly is this church set up? Do you sit in pews while someone preaches in front of a grand stained glass window?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 9 2006, 03:29 PM) [snapback]268751[/snapback]</div>

The poll question reflects a rigid mindset that doesn't allow for a range of alternatives. That's why I didn't vote.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 9 2006, 02:29 PM) [snapback]268751[/snapback]</div>

I have to agree there. I do not like the term religious....but prefer the term spiritual. I am not a bible-beater but I do believe in God. I think categorizing everyone that believes in God into the "religious" sphere puts a lot of stereotyping in it.....maybe that has to due with the media/mainstream of life these days? I was raised Lutheran.....go to church at Lutheran churches now and then....go to episcopalian churches with my girlfriend...but am a Christian. I don't like the whole classification of Christians.....I see no need for it. I believe in God, a higher power, try to do good, try to live better, and even incorporate a lot of Buddhist elements in there. I think it has to be a personal relationship with "your" God.

 

For me, the simplistic definitions are:

A liberal has no problem with allowing you to choose.

A conservative has no problem with allowing you to choose as long as it's exactly what they believe/want. If you don't choose "wisely" (I.E. the way they want) then they'd rather you have no choice. And they'll take it away by imposing a new law.

Liberal...the anti-mandate.

Hmmm. Would a lot of the founding Fathers be considered the liberals of their time? Was this country created liberal?

Oh, horrors.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jun 9 2006, 03:44 PM) [snapback]268771[/snapback]</div>

In the UU church, we frequently refer to our "liberal religious faith." That doesn't mean politically liberal- it's no secret that many UUs are politcally liberal, but that is by no means a prerequisite- but liberal in the sense of open minded and respectful. What you believe is great, what I believe is great, and if we're both UUs chances are we'll drink coffee (that IS a prerequisite for being a UU ) and have a good conversation about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jun 9 2006, 12:35 PM) [snapback]268759[/snapback]</div>

Actually, the UU church varies from congregation to congregation, as most decisions are made democratically by the local members.

Some are called "fellowship" halls, others are more "churchy" with traditional music, an organ, etc.

There is usually one (or more) pastor who has a degree in one or more religious traditions who leads the congregation in various broad-ranging discussions (in place of a "sermon"), songs are sung, members speak about their needs or concerns, recent joys or sorrows, etc.

UUs generally have a sense of humor about the whole process, such as "Unitarian's don't sing very well because they are always skipping ahead to see if they agree with the words."

A holiday service in a large UU church can be quite fun and educational, with everything from choruses from Handel's messiah with full organ and choir, to traditional Jewish tunes and lessons about winter holidays from many faiths.

UU congregations generally spend a high percentage of their funds on community outreach programs, rather than on building lavish mega-church style buildings.

There are UU churches in many communities, the church itself has roots going back to the 16th century.

Here is a link describing the history of the Unitarian-Universalist church:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

- Bob R.

 

"belong to a church"

I might have tainted the results of your poll by clicking yes when in fact I am NOT a member of a church, but of a Synagogue. If this was a christians only need respond than subtract one please......
If not, well, wording recognizing this country's beautifully diverse religious makeup would be appropriate---

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobr1 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:21 PM) [snapback]268817[/snapback]</div>

Q: What happens if you piss off a UU?
A: He might burn a question mark on your yard.

Q: Why did the Unitarian-Universalist cross the road?
A: To support the chicken in its search for its own path

UU Prayer: "Dear God, if there is a God, if you can, save my soul, if I have a soul."





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobr1 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:21 PM) [snapback]268817[/snapback]</div>

One year, our minister (who comes from a Catholic-Jewish family) decided to conduct a Passover seder in our parish hall. We had a potluck dinner, which was great, but one of the members of the congregation brought a spiral-cut ham.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobr1 @ Jun 9 2006, 04:21 PM) [snapback]268817[/snapback]</div>

That's actually really cool! For a moment, I envisioned a structure specifically structured against the *standard* church structure ( :blink: )... Something amongst the lines of big, circular, rows of pews where basically anyone can get up and speak to everyone in the middle, that sort of thing, where no one really preaches, but rather the "reverend" is more of an "orderly moderator"...

This past Christmas, I was "dragged" ( :lol: ) to church by mom and grandma, and I expected, you know, the usual stern-structured latin mass, but instead turned out to be some real "open" church, far more closer to the description you provided. I was really, REALLY, weirded out when at a certain point, everyone had to join hands, even across the aisles, raise their joined hands, and sing... :blink: Even though I go to church all but once per year, that kind of open friendliness actually creeps me out. I do tend to prefer the "hardcore" Latin-esque structure I grew up with, but since I go maybe once a year...

Thanks for the link, I will check it out...

 

Hmmm... I've always avoided anything that resembles a church too closely, but the UU group seems more up my alley than I'd expected. One of their basic tenets is "Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part." Good for y'all =)

My recent conversion to the CotFSM aside, I voted no (I'm not religious, I haven't attended a church service in many years, and I don't think you meant the kind of faith I have.) I always sigh when asked something like this, though, because so many people equate 'godless' with 'immoral'. I may not believe that there is a god weighing my actions, but I know that *I* have to live with each and everything I do. That's enough for me - I live an ethical life because I would want someone else to act ethically with regard to me and mine and what I hold dear.

Sometimes, I admit, I wonder if I've missed something that would open up the world of spirituality to me - I really do wish (not in a testing way, in an honest and true desire for there to be a safe haven for those I love) that I had the kind of faith some of you have. I always think about people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, and I figure that you win some, and you lose some, and I'm probably best off just keeping to the path that works for me, just trying to do the next right thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(geologyrox @ Jun 9 2006, 05:04 PM) [snapback]268887[/snapback]</div>

If I had to choose between the Robertson/Jerry Falwell types and the devil himself I think I would choose the devil. (THANK GOD) we don't have to make that choice.So I will just continue with my tree hugging, liberal, Democratic ways and let others believe as they wish. Ivoted YES

 

Proud to vote NO!

Check out http://www.ffrf.org/