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Ford : C-Max Hybrid to have better fuel economy than Prius v

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by evnow, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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  2. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Lots of nice pictures in that article! Thanks.

    Competition drives innovation. I'm glad to see Ford going straight at Toyota in their marketing. It is clear that Toyota is the leader in hybrids, and with other automakers on hot pursuit, this should drive rapid innovation, just like the iPhone and Android innovative battle. I'm glad to see that Ford is much closer to Toyota's mpg than they were 5 years ago because the closer the competition, the faster the pressure on immediate innovation.
     
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  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    kWh of the pack makes a difference. Any idea what it is?
    .
     
  4. rogerv

    rogerv Senior Member

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    Wouldn't you expect an all-electric vehicle to get better MPGe than a plugin hybrid? What am I missing here?
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    There are 3 vehicles being talked about
    The focus EV which ford is saying gets over 100mpge which compares to the leaf 99mpge. Note range not mpge is the important measure

    Then they are saying in charge depletion mode the c-max energi gets better milage than the prius phv (87mpge toyota estimate). The prius phv should get better milage in charge sustain mode (49mpg toyota estimate for prius phv).

    Finally the the non plug in version the c-max hybrid will get better mpg than the prius v.

    We don't have real numbers yet, and there are other things more important than efficiency, but ford is going for bragging rights on efficiency on these hybrids and evs.
     
  6. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    For the Focus Electric, the article says:
    Let's hope this helps a lot in the winter and hot summer days.
     
  7. PriQ

    PriQ CT+iQ

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    Marketing and MPG. Or should "I say marketing and numbers"?

    Until you tell us the actual numbers...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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  9. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Analog speedo gage through the steering wheel? Ah, I'll keep my digital gage and MID, TYVM.

    Still, good job stepping up to the Prius v. Only Honda has tried to crush the big dog Prius, and they got whupped.
     
  10. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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  11. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    There. I fixed it for you. :)
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    prius has 24.1 (seats up)/36.9 51/48mpg
    c-max 24.9/54.3 inbetween mpg
    prius v 34.3/67.3 44/40mpg

    If you want that cargo room with the seats folded down c-max gets you most of the way. If you have 4 passengers and cargo, you may need more than the prius v, but it has much mores space than the c-max
     
  13. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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    Since I'm more interested in Energi than the Hybrid, I'm disappointed with the 19 cu ft cargo space. That means the battery has pushed up the floor in Energi, compared to C-Max.

    C-Max Energi: New C-Max Hybrid & Energi details released

    BTW, EPA gives a slightly lower cargo figure for Prius.
     
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Yep, 21.6 cu feet on the gen III prius liftback, you will have a smaller space in the energi because of the battery down to 19.1. If you can fold down a seat it gets better, but loses out 12.9 cu feet because of the battery to 43.4.

    Thanks for the link. It had a pdf at the bottom with weight and other items 3682 lbs for the hybrid, 3986 for the energi plug in. That makes 304 lbs for the battery/coolant/etc. I wonder if we can guess pack size from that.
    http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2013_CMAX_Specs.pdf
     
  15. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    From the article:
    Considering the electric Focus mentioned in the article has heating and cooling of the battery while driving, I hope they add the ability to preheat the battery while still plugged in, in the winter.
     
  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Interesting development and kudos to Ford. eCVT would be manufactured in the US but gas engine in Mexico.

    They are interesting mix to choose from. C-Max hybrid is sized between Prius and Prius v. Despite being heavier with 2.0 liter gas engine, it is expected to get more MPG than Prius v. 185 hp is expected as well.

    It looks like the Energi would have slightly less interior than PiP. Ford traded more battery for interior volume. It still seats 5, unlike the Volt. It weights nearly 4,000 lbs and I wonder about the price.

    Interesting Energi would not have the exhaust heat recovery but the hybrid would.
     
  17. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    so much for lion weighting less and being smaller packaging than nimh in toyota hybrids... so far toyota nimh hybrids are both lighter and have more space than competition's lion.
     
  18. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    wait, so C-MAX barely has more space than regular Prius and plugin version has less?
    It is small MPV, what happened there?

    I see that is it actually slightly smaller than Prius, let alone Prius v.
    It is cool that they picked 2.0l engine and that it will have 185hp, but it is really really disappointing that they managed to make car that is smaller than regular Prius, heavier than Camry Hybrid by 250lbs, let alone regular prius at 600+ lbs.


    600+ extra lbs for smaller car with lithium batteries.
     
  19. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    huh. The weight I gave is for the plug-in pack. Toyota also uses LIon in the phv. LIon and Lithium polymer are lighter weight per unit power and per unit energy in toyota and ford cars.

    The c-max is inbetween the prius v and prius in size. You can look at the specs. The c-max has more passenger room than the prius. When you put the larger battery pack in the one dimension cargo room behind the second seats is slightly smaller than the prius. passenger room and cargo with part or all of the back seat folded down stay larger, but this shrinks significantly verus the hybrid or ice c-max.

    Prius phv is also heavier than the prius, because...... it has a higher capacity battery. Using lion makes this a smaller weight gain, than Nimh. The prius + (7 seat v) also uses lithium to lower the weight and volume of the battery pack.

    evnow has a page with most of the dimensions
    http://www.c-maxenergi.com/2011/12/ford-releases-energi-internal.html#more
     
  20. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Wow, C-Max hybrid (no-plug) version is 532 lbs heavier than PiP. Energi (plugin) is 836 lbs heavier.

    Compare to Prius v, C-Max hybrid is 408 lbs heavier.