Ford maverick - Anyone else skeptical about Ford's "40 MPG in the city" claim?

Discussion in 'Ford/Lincoln Hybrids and EVs' started by farmecologist, Sep 23, 2021.

  1. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Hi all,

    I have been interested in the Ford Maverick Hybrid ever since it was announced. However, once the initial excitement wore off, I crunched a few numbers...and I'm more than a little skeptical of Ford's "40 MPG in the city" claim.

    First off, let's look at vehicle weight and battery capacity :
    • Prius C :
      • Weight = 2,500 lbs, Battery Capacity = 0.9 Kwh, EPA = 53 city / 46 hwy
    • Gen3 Prius Liftback :
      • Weight = 3,042 lbs, Battery Capacity = 1.3 Kwh, EPA = 51 city / 48 hwy
    • Prius V :
      • Weight = 3,274 lbs, Battery Capacity = 1.3 Kwh, EPA = 44 city / 40 hwy
    • Ford Maverick Hybrid :
      • Weight = 3,674+ lbs, Battery Capacity = 1.1 Kwh, EPA = N/A
    Just looking at these weight vs. battery capacity numbers...something seems a bit off. Do we really think folks are going to consistently get "40 MPG in the city"? I'm thinking Ford is pushing it here and many may end up disappointed...especially after adding options and such. Also odd that no EPA estimates exist yet.

    Of course, absolutely nobody is discussing this on any of the Ford forums, etc... So I thought I'd post here and see what people think.

    Incidentally, my neighbor has a hybrid F150 ( that has a 1.5 Kwh battery and weighs 4,465lbs - 5,014lbs ) and has been disappointed in the 'city' MPG number. The F150 is a completely different beast though...but worth thinking about as well.

    Long story short...I'm waiting on 'real world' MPG numbers before I would even consider it. Also, Toyota really blew it here by not offering a competitive small pickup truck.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I put my name on the reservation but so far nothing is happening. I am not sure they are going to get them out this year. Yeah, wait out the first-year model and see what the reality holds.

    I still wish we had Japanese Kei trucks here. It would be perfect for our hauling needs and cost/performance.
    upload_2021-9-23_12-35-35.png
     
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Are those total capacity values, or usable?

    My guess is total from what I remember of the old Prius specs. If so, the usable amount is going to be 40% of those figures, as all those models used NiMH.

    I think the last Ford hybrid to use NiMH was the first gen Fusion. It has been Li-ion ever since, which would give the Maverick 80% usable of that capacity. That's 0.88kWh to a gen3 Prius's 0.52. Then this is the hybrid system from the Escape in which the battery is liquid cooled. The Escape's curb weight is 3870lbs with a 44mpg city rating.

    Spotted one of those on I95, a year ago. Did a quick search then of used ones pricing, and found a fire truck model listed for $10k.
     
  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    My understanding is that the standard Kei sold in Japan is not a road-legal vehicle as is in the USA. Importing used Kei and modifying it to make it road legal would make the cost too high. Those trucks sell below $10K brand new over there.
     
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  6. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    Rav4 hybrids have a curb wt of about 3700 lbs and are rated at 41 mpg in the city and get that easily.
     
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  7. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Good call. The SOC variable is what I'm missing in my numbers.

    Maybe there is some hope that Ford can actually hit the "city MPG" number.(y)


    I think the Rav4 has a 1.6Kwh battery...correct?
     
  8. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I do (but wouldn’t bet on it). Why? Well first my C-max easily beats its EPA CITY numbers. Secondly, you’re comparing older NiMh tech to LiOn. Just look how much better the Prius LiOn models perform over the regular Prius family. And thirdly, see previous C-max FE fiasco(s). Fourth, numbers seen in early pre-production “spy photos” from dealer demonstrators look promising.

    We have a loaded Maverick on (back) order. Might get it next spring (ordered in late June).
     
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  9. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Kei Older than 1996 is fully importable and road legal in the US
     
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  10. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Every time I hit 40 in the city I get a ticket.

    That said most every vehicle “could “ get almost 80mpg at 25mph if the motor and drivetrain was sized for the speed.

    But knowing Ford king of the MPG lawsuit it is certainly possible they are pushing the metric.

    No doubt in -20F weather you will get 50% of that number
     
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  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Good to know. But then again, just importing directly from Japan, would not be cost-effective. And I would have a problem driving on the wrong side of the road... lol I have never driven a car with the steering wheel on the right side. Is that hard to do? US postal service people may not think so... but I wonder how hard it is for me.
     
  12. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    "Just look how much better the Prius LiOn models perform over the regular Prius family"

    Hmm...really? I haven't seen any solid data that points to LiOn 'performing better'. Possibly marginally due to a higher SOC...but other than that, I haven't seen much. I certainly could have missed it though. (y)

    You are brave...I'm waiting on the Maverick to see 'real world' numbers, etc... And until all the hybrid nerds get their hands on it...haha. :D
     
  13. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Brave? Hah, not really. By the time ours gets built, first adopters will be nearly 6 months in. I’ve been following Ford’s HEV’s and PHEV’s since about 2010 when I found out they were so similar to the HSD and over all they’ve got a really good track record (other than FE fiasco).
     
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  14. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    I believe that's about right. I was just noting that a vehicle of that weight can get such good MPG. Question is it because of the bigger battery, improved hybrid system or both. The first gen Rav4 Hybrid had the same size battery but much worse MPG than the current gen.
     
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  15. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Yeah...the fact my neighbor isn't all that happy with the hybrid F150 MPG is what caused me to dial back my excitement for the Maverick just a bit. Not giving up on it...but it's now a wait and see for me instead of a preorder. (y)
     
  16. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    I agree. Ford is about the only other manufacturer that I would consider purchasing a hybrid from at this point....mostly due to the fact that they are almost the same as the Toyota HSD.

    Really disappointed that Hyundai doubled down on the DCT in the new Elantra hybrid, etc... :whistle:
     
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  17. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Anything specific?

    Forgot to mention this: Maverick hybrid is based on the Escape hybrid drivetrain that’s been out for a while. The Escape PHEV was put on hold for samsung battery issues (in Europe before it got here) but if that is sorted and if the Maverick PHEV rumors become true, I’ll wait for that.
     
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  18. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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  19. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Yep I know it is based on the Escape hybrid.

    And yep, the rumors about a PHEV version of the Maverick is another reason I'm holding off. (y) It does look like the Maverick would be perfect for me though...must resist.

    And as I said up above...Toyota really blew it by not having a competitive pickup truck.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That price was for the fire truck. The basic pick ups were in the $6000 range at the time.
    [​IMG]
    That might actually be the photo from the ad.

    The F150 is a parallel hybrid, and also the most powerful drive train option. Might not be easy for some to drive it frugally;). If used for towing any large trailers, the 8 to 10 mpg it gets then will really drag the average down.

    That Prius rating includes average results from cars with NiMH and Li-ion. The Eco cuts weight for more favorable test conditions. The Prime has higher battery capacity. A larger NiMH battery would get similar results.
     
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