Ford's Focus gives hybrids a run for their money-PZEV & 37mpg

Sigh.... well, he can make a lot of the same claims on all/virtually all the PZEV and AT-PZEV vehicles at http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsearch...ehicletypeid=16 and http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsearch...vehicletypeid=7.

He didn't bother to actually give some other numbers (he's quoting the pre-MY 2008 EPA highway numbers on a manual Focus) nor greenhouse gas emissions (which aren't counted as part of the EPA pollution score/emissions ratings).

Per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm, a Cali/CARB 07 Focus w/2.0L manual emits 6.8 tons of greenhouse gases/year vs. 4.0 of the Prius. Its old EPA ratings are 27/37, 31 combined and new ones are 24/33, 27 combined. In comparison, the Priuses old ratings were 60/51, 55 combined and new ones are 48/45, 46 combined.

 

It's ok ... and it's nice ... but not nearly as nice as the hi hy. Still, my hats off to ford. When they were caught with their pants down ... and no hybrid to offer the public. What did they do? Unlike GM? ... who'd rather sit on their hands and bad mouth hybrids .... and suck up Fed research mony for pie in the sky hydrogen? Ford got off the fence and licenced (cross licence to be precise) Toyota's Hybrid technology. Way to go, Ford!
And 37mpg? That's the kind of number that makes buyers screem bloody murder when it takes pulse & glide practice (whigh many are simply not willing to do) in order to achieve such numbers. Our SUV hybrid (Lexus 400h) old numbers were around 31mpg (a much more powerful set up, btw) and it's a quasi all wheel drive. But 'She who must be obeyed' is only getting 24.5mpg.

 

"up to" 37 mpg. Yeah, that's sure close to 47 mpg of the Prius. It's only 20% off.

PZEV. Uh, aren't there quite a few other cars with PZEV status? And don't most small cars get in the 30s for mpg?

It is a nice, pretty dark blue.

 

To add more data, when Consumer Reports tested Ford Focuses w/2.0L engines, they got fuel economy ranging from 17/33, 24 combined to 20/35, 28 combined w/the highest coming from one w/a manual.

Per http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/bu...s-206/index.htm, they got 35/50, 44 combined w/the Prius... so yeah, the Focus is just really giving hybrids a "run for their money" when the Prius gets at least 57% better combined mileage.

 

I hope you guys finally get something that resembles the Euro Focus. Really nice interior finish, almost feels like an Audi. If they had the CVT automatic two years ago, I'd have bought one instead of a Prius, just for the interior. They now have a CVT automatic diesel (unusual combination here) that gets 42 MPG.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HBO6 @ Jul 29 2007, 06:37 PM) [snapback]487214[/snapback]</div>

I like the Focus a lot -- it's the successor to the car I used to own (Escort), it's the same platform as the Mazda 3, and it was made in a variety of flexible body styles including hatchback. But the gas mileage is mediocre. The best listed 2007 Focus gets 27 MPG overall based on the new US EPA rating. By contrast, my 1993 Escort got 30 mpg, based on the new US EPA ratings. The Focus weighs just 300 lbs more than an Escort, so its not as if there's a lot more car there. Just no focus on fuel efficiency for a decade and a half.

Looks like Ford markets a more fuel-efficient model in Europe. No surprise, yet galling that they won't even give it a try here.

The joke is that I actually bought a Ford Focus C-MAX last year -- only Ford doesn't market it here, what I bought in the US is the (nearly identical) Mazda 5. If Ford had offered it here, I'd have bought it from Ford.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lowlander @ Jul 30 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]487323[/snapback]</div>

No, our "new" Focus is just the old Focus with new front and rear bumpers and lights. It is still built on the 1st generation platform and has the same poor plastic interior. It is nothing at all like the fine cars that Ford sells in Europe. If you want the 2nd generation platform in the U.S. you have to buy a Mazda 3 or a Volvo S40/V50.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 30 2007, 11:19 AM) [snapback]487432[/snapback]</div>

Ford made the same mistake with the Focus that they did with the Taurus.

When it first came out the Focus was a truely competitive small car. But, instead of doing the hard work of keeping it up to date, the rested on their laurels and let another golden opportunity slip by.

If Ford had invested in the Taurus and Focus the same way Toyota and Honda did with their offerings I firmly believe that we would all be recognizing Camry/Accord/Taurus and Corolla/Civic/Focus as the top of the heap in their respective classes.

I absolutely cannot comprehend why American car manufacturers insist on repeating the same mistakes over and over. They develop an excellent car, then let it rot on the vine. Sad.

 

"up to 37..." OOOOOOO, AHHHHHHH :lol:

 

hehehehe....

Hey, when Chrysler runs a tv ad with text stating:
"Chrysler proves you don't need a foreign import to get great fuel efficiency"---and then proceeds to show 4 of their offerings, NONE of which exceed 32 Highway, two of which don't even break 30... well, you can see where stating "up to 37mpg" might be exciting news for some!

I'm still wondering just how Chrysler thinks they've "proven" anything of the sort, to me as a consumer, by using this ad... when the next Toyota ad boasts the Prius 60mpg... (And granted, although I've yet to achieve 60mpg with my Prius, I am more than thrilled with my 53.5 average---a full 67% better MPG than Chrysler's best, in that ad!)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChristoB @ Jul 30 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]487500[/snapback]</div>

Around here in the DEEEEEtroit area, it's rather difficult to keep a straight face when one of the Detroit 3 guys thinks that 30 mpg is "high mileage" no, actuallly, 30 is pretty mediocre. When you're used to getting 50 even in the winter, it's difficult to see anything less as meaningful. BTW, this is prime mileage season for me. Currently, I'm getting 57 and may get to 60 before the tank is half used. This is without hypermiling or anything other than just careful, rational driving behavior.

 

And the hatchback and wagon are going bye-bye. *sigh*
While it's being done to an extent with Mazda and Volvo, I've heard the idea the Ford should be using Mercury to sell European Fords instead of dressed up Americans.

What exactly are the emmission ratings and standards in Europe? As I understand it, they stress carbon emmissions, whereas, we traditionally stressed the other pollutants. Are those more fuel efficient cars so at the expense of being dirtier?

Not everyone can have a Prius, or even an hybrid. In the realm of cars that most people drive, the Focus has competative economy and a cleaner edge. The numbers are from fueleconomy.gov. I couldn't link the exact comparison page.
With automatics, the RAV4 gets 23mpg combined, the Focus 26, the Corrolla and Civic 29, and the Yaris 31. I'm throwing in the RAV4 because, while you can still get it, the Focus wagon has the same cargo volume.

There are multiple emmission standards and the Focus has 2 engines to everyone elses' one. So I'm going what seems the fairest comparison. In CARB states, the Focus is a SULEV II/PZEV with a score of 9.5. The others a ULEV II w/ a 7. For the rest of the country, Focus Is a Bin 4 w/ 7, and the others Bin 5 w/ 6.

Well, an hundred pounds of stuff left in the car can reduce milage by 1% to 2%. Plus, I'm willing to bet the Toyotas and Honda above are cleaner than that Escort. The two Focus engines are the same displacement. The cleaner one produces somewhere around 20 horsepower less. You really should try not to compare new to old cars for economy. You're heading for the "the Prius isn't that great, the CRX/Metro got just as good milage" territory.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ShellyT @ Jul 30 2007, 08:06 PM) [snapback]487697[/snapback]</div>

To the contrary, I'm comparing Ford's last economy car offering and its current offering, where the cars 1) fill the same niche in Ford's lineup and 2) are almost exactly the same size and weight. My point is that, 15 years later, the most fuel-efficient car Ford offers in America gets worse MPG than the nearly-equivalent 1993 car.

But you don't have to appeal to air quality standards or extra weight or whatnot to make an excuse for this. The reason is pretty straightforward. The 1993 Escort was 110 hp, the 2007 Focus is 136. Just like everything else in the US automakers' lineup, Ford focused on performance not efficiency.

The reason I get irked about it is that I'd far rather buy a fuel-efficient Ford than buy a Toyota. (OK, I'm out of the closet.) But Ford doesn't give me the option.

The reason I'm doubly irked about is that I searched for the most fuel-efficient six-passenger vehicle I could get, reluctantly bought a 2007 Mazda 5, and only later (via this board) found out that Ford markets its own version of that in Europe, and it was European car of the year, for crying out loud.

I understand, don't compare a light car to a heavy car, or a dirty car to a clean car. This isn't that. This is a reflection that frugality is so far out of the US mainstream that Ford apparently can't make a decent profit trying to cater to the frugal driver market. Clearly technically capable, vis the CMAX, just don't think there are enough Americans with those tastes to make it worth marketing the cars here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ShellyT @ Jul 30 2007, 07:06 PM) [snapback]487697[/snapback]</div>

You are correct that the EU stresses CO2 (and by default fuel economy) while the US stresses smog forming gases like NOx. The EU still has specific diesel classifications that allow diesels to emit more NOx because they have better fuel economy than gasoline cars. The US has this too until 2008 when diesels will have to meet the same minimum standards as gasoline cars; Tier 2 Bin 5.

There are several reasons that European versions of cars get better mileage. First they have diesel engine options that boost fuel economy by 20 to 30%. Second, manual transmissions are the norm in Europe except for luxury cars and then those cars usually have 6 to 7 speed automatics. Third, the gasoline engine are much smaller. The Ford Focus base engine in Europe is 1.4L gasoline engine that produces 80 horsepower. I have personally driven a Ford Mondeo Wagon in the Czech Republic with a 1.2L or 1.3L engine and a 5 speed manual. Though it was no speed demon it would get out of its own way and got pretty good gas mileage. Not as good as the diesels that I normally drive but still OK for a gasoline engine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 31 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]487755[/snapback]</div>

True, although the EU is bringing the diesel classifications more in line with those for gasoline cars over the next years. And they're closing the loophole that allowed SUVs to use exemptions meant for commercial vehicles. From EurActiv.com:

Emissions of the highly noxious pollutants known as nitrogen oxides (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) from diesel vehicles are currently four to five times higher than for petrol vehicles. The Euro 5 Directive aims to make diesel cars "catch up" - although not completely.

The Euro 5 limits will reduce emissions of particulates from diesel cars by 80% compared to Euro 4. They will however be more lenient as regards NOx emissions, which will only have to be cut from 250mg/km to 180mg/km – against the current 70mg/km for petrol vehicles.

This leniency for diesel vehicles contrasts with legislation in the United States, which is "fuel-neutral". However, it is worth mentioning that diesel cars represent roughly half of all cars in the EU, whereas they represent less than 5% of those in the US.

[...]

Beyond Euro 5, the three institutions have agreed on introducing longer-term limits, under a Euro 6 stage that has been adopted at the same time as Euro 5, but will enter into force five years later. Euro 6 will set significantly lower emission limits for NOx emissions from diesel cars.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 31 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]487755[/snapback]</div>

Don't forget what's perhaps the most important driver behind higher mileage here: over $7.50 per gallon for gasoline. Most of it is taxes.