Found out how painful it is to lose key fob

chrism07924 · Jun 3, 2007

My wife lost her Pri 2005 key fob the first year, and last week she lost mine. Called AAA to haul it to the dealership to go through the who rigamarole of replacing/recoding the fob. Insane. Only, AAA refused to take it for fear of doing damage to the transmission while the car sat in Park. Called Toyota headquarters to talk about this, whether it really could damage the car by dragging it 5-6 feet to get it on the flatbed. They didn't seem to know at first, but asked someone and they said probably not. Great. "Probably". I told the Toyota person how ridiculous this is....risk damaging your tires or your transmission because you have to physically transport your vehicle to a dealer to do this. She agreed.

Toyota and these other car dealerships MUST, absolutely MUST change this. Having to go through this much trouble to acquire and recode what amounts to a chincy, cheap peace of electronics in a tiny black box is ridiculous! Why can't they program it centrally, perhaps based on VIN #, ship them out to a dealership, and then let the person go there, show ID, and pick it up? Nuts! There's got to be a better, more sensible way to allow people the recover lost fobs without going through this expensive hassle. I can't imagine this continuing to be the standard replacement method as more people get these type keys and thus more losses mount.

So, hang to those key fobs...with your dear life. Or it's your wallet, your tires, potentially your transmission, and your time. I'm starting to miss the good old fashioned locksmith.

Anubis · Jun 3, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chrism07924 @ Jun 3 2007, 08:20 AM) [snapback]454341[/snapback]</div>

Why can't they program it centrally, perhaps based on VIN #, ship them out to a dealership, and then let the person go there, show ID, and pick it up? Nuts! There's got to be a better, more sensible way to allow people the recover lost fobs without going through this expensive hassle. I can't imagine this continuing to be the standard replacement method as more people get these type keys and thus more losses mount.
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When my brother and I purchased our Prii last year (three weeks and several dealerships apart from each other) each of us received with our fobs a large circular ring with a teeny little silver tag on it. You should have received one as well.

A 5-digit number is stamped on that tag. That number is the program code for your particular car. If you received one of those ID numbers (and if you didn't, you should go now and get the code from the dealer who programmed your new fob(s) while that number is still fresh in their minds), then all you need to do, should your wife continue to misplace fobs, is to simply call the dealer (any Toyota dealer) and order a new fob programmed to your 5-digit code.

Of course, it's still horribly expensive to get these fobs replaced (or so I've heard).

I believe the only reason a dealership would need the physical presence of your Prius is to test the new fob to see if it works with your car, which you can do from home after picking up your new fob, and all without towing/moving the car.

Something to consider, since your wife appears to have perfected the art of losing key fobs, is to take all your keys off these fobs so you never need to have the fob out in the open.

I keep my fob zipped up in a pocket deep in my purse, and it never gets touched. I don't need it to open the doors (the SKS senses the presence of the fob and unlocks the doors automatically when I grasp the door handle), nor when I lock the doors (I use the black buttons on the outside when I get out of the car), and I never have to worry about locking the keys or my purse in the car (since the car can sense when the fob is still inside the car and won't lock the doors when you try to lock it by pushing that black button on the outside), and with having the SKS I also don't need to insert the fob into the slot in order to start the car.

Therefore, the fob never needs to be out in the open. The Prius is really a woman-friendly car. We always have our purses with us, and by keeping the fob securely tucked away inside our purses, we will never forget either of them (how can we drive away and forget our purse if the car won't allow us when the purse--and encased fob--is missing?)!

Of course, all this is assuming you have a high enough package to have SKS... I can't tell from your ID information or your post.

TheAnnoyingOne · Jun 3, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chrism07924 @ Jun 3 2007, 07:20 AM) [snapback]454341[/snapback]</div>

................ Called AAA to haul it to the dealership to go through the who rigamarole of replacing/recoding the fob. Insane. Only, AAA refused to take it for fear of doing damage to the transmission while the car sat in Park. Called Toyota headquarters to talk about this, whether it really could damage the car by dragging it 5-6 feet to get it on the flatbed. ..................
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All AAA driver had to do was to apply the emergency brake, jack-up the front, place two dollies under the wheels, pull the car out of the tight spot and load it on the flatbed.

After loosing the first fob you should have immediately contacted the dealer to get a replacement (much cheaper since you had the second fob as reference).

IsrAmeriPrius · Jun 3, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Anubis @ Jun 3 2007, 07:58 AM) [snapback]454358[/snapback]</div>

A 5-digit number is stamped on that tag. That number is the program code for your particular car. If you received one of those ID numbers (and if you didn't, you should go now and get the code from the dealer who programmed your new fob(s) while that number is still fresh in their minds), then all you need to do, should your wife continue to misplace fobs, is to simply call the dealer (any Toyota dealer) and order a new fob programmed to your 5-digit code.[/b]
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The five digit code is only for the mechanical key which is housed in the fob. A fob cannot be programmed. The car is programmed to accept the rolling code from the new fob.

chrism07924 · Jun 4, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jun 3 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]454410[/snapback]</div>

The five digit code is only for the mechanical key which is housed in the fob. A fob cannot be programmed. The car is programmed to accept the rolling code from the new fob.
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I have both 5 digit codes; I'll call the dealership to see what if anything that does for me (sounds like nothing though).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Anubis @ Jun 3 2007, 10:58 AM) [snapback]454358[/snapback]</div>

When my brother and I purchased our Prii last year (three weeks and several dealerships apart from each other) each of us received with our fobs a large circular ring with a teeny little silver tag on it. You should have received one as well.

A 5-digit number is stamped on that tag. That number is the program code for your particular car. If you received one of those ID numbers (and if you didn't, you should go now and get the code from the dealer who programmed your new fob(s) while that number is still fresh in their minds), then all you need to do, should your wife continue to misplace fobs, is to simply call the dealer (any Toyota dealer) and order a new fob programmed to your 5-digit code.

Of course, it's still horribly expensive to get these fobs replaced (or so I've heard).

I believe the only reason a dealership would need the physical presence of your Prius is to test the new fob to see if it works with your car, which you can do from home after picking up your new fob, and all without towing/moving the car.

Something to consider, since your wife appears to have perfected the art of losing key fobs, is to take all your keys off these fobs so you never need to have the fob out in the open.

I keep my fob zipped up in a pocket deep in my purse, and it never gets touched. I don't need it to open the doors (the SKS senses the presence of the fob and unlocks the doors automatically when I grasp the door handle), nor when I lock the doors (I use the black buttons on the outside when I get out of the car), and I never have to worry about locking the keys or my purse in the car (since the car can sense when the fob is still inside the car and won't lock the doors when you try to lock it by pushing that black button on the outside), and with having the SKS I also don't need to insert the fob into the slot in order to start the car.

Therefore, the fob never needs to be out in the open. The Prius is really a woman-friendly car. We always have our purses with us, and by keeping the fob securely tucked away inside our purses, we will never forget either of them (how can we drive away and forget our purse if the car won't allow us when the purse--and encased fob--is missing?)!

Of course, all this is assuming you have a high enough package to have SKS... I can't tell from your ID information or your post.
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Thanks for your post. I do have both 5 digit codes, but I'm not sure what that'll do for me in my case; the gentleman below seems to think nada. In this case, I think the Pri is too woman friendly, as my wife apparently left the key fob on the roof as she put our 4 yr old in the car, then forgot about them. Of course, the car started anyway, being close enough to the key (or is it the other way around)?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Annoying One @ Jun 3 2007, 11:56 AM) [snapback]454389[/snapback]</div>

All AAA driver had to do was to apply the emergency brake, jack-up the front, place two dollies under the wheels, pull the car out of the tight spot and load it on the flatbed.

After loosing the first fob you should have immediately contacted the dealer to get a replacement (much cheaper since you had the second fob as reference).
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The Prius was nosed into the garage, not sure how that would have worked (or wouldn't have?). As for the lost key fob, I just found out (from her) about it being lost the day my wife lost mine! How'd ya like those apples. I keep my fob in my wallet, and have never lost it since buying the car in 2005. I'm also in the IT industry and use these tiny little SecureID fobs as well, and never lost those in 10 years. Men are from Mars, my wife is from Lostville on Venus.

Godiva · Jun 4, 2007

I would have replaced wife's lost fob right after she lost the first one.

When I bought my car I was given two fobs. I'm not married and the dog doesn't have a license so one went in a safe place in my house. The one with the silver tag to cut the mechanical key. The other I use. I immediately purchased and had programed a third fob and that is at my parent's house in a file with their secure papers. If for any reason I lose both of my keys, I still have one at my parents' house. And if for any reason I need them to bring me a key because I'm somewhere and my key has been lost (or stolen) they have an emergency key.

I think the cost of having a spare key is much less than having to have one made when you have no fobs at all...reprogramming the ECU...replacing the ECU or whatever.

I hope your wife finds at least one of those fobs soon.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chrism07924 @ Jun 4 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]454940[/snapback]</div>

In this case, I think the Pri is too woman friendly, as my wife apparently left the key fob on the roof as she put our 4 yr old in the car, then forgot about them. Of course, the car started anyway, being close enough to the key (or is it the other way around)?
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Ah. This is a case of SKS not being superior to the regular old fob. I have to put my fob in the slot for the car to start. Of course with SKS...why take the key out at all. She should have left it in her purse, hence no need to even get it out and set it down on the roof.

hobbit · Jun 4, 2007

Y'know, you'd think Toyota would have a widget that can substitute
for the transmission control ECU and plug in to fire the parking
pawl actuator and retract it. It wouldn't be hard, but it does have
to be a 3-phase drive output. The plug is conveniently located
under the passenger-side dash, easy to get to, and would beat the
piss out of trying to unbolt the actuator itself from underneath.
.
But for most tow monkeys, I guess a dolly is easier..
.
_H*

chrism07924 · Jun 4, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jun 4 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]455030[/snapback]</div>

Y'know, you'd think Toyota would have a widget that can substitute
for the transmission control ECU and plug in to fire the parking
pawl actuator and retract it. It wouldn't be hard, but it does have
to be a 3-phase drive output. The plug is conveniently located
under the passenger-side dash, easy to get to, and would beat the
piss out of trying to unbolt the actuator itself from underneath.
.
But for most tow monkeys, I guess a dolly is easier..
.
_H*
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Well, we will be ponying up the cash for not one but two keys, to "save" on programming. One will be going to Fort Knox, where we hope it will be safe, in case I feel like ever letting my wife drive my car again.

In any case, notwithstanding all the obvious 20/20 wisdom of the young and keen/sharp of wit, does anyone actually believe this current solution for replacing lost keys will last long? As more folks get these fobs, I cannot imagine this status quo lasting. It's a young market for these fobs right now, but wait until every Tom, Dick and Harry has one...hard to believe hauling the car off, potentially miles away, to a dealer will be the "best practice" in supporting thoughtless and forgetful customers who desperately just want back into their vehicles.

Frank Hudon · Jun 4, 2007

nosed into the garage, slide the dolly cross bar under the back of the front tires, one under the front of the tires, hook on the actual dolly and cam them over and lock them. Hook the wheel lift on the back of the car and pull it out of the garage, total time without breaking a sweat 4 minutes. Set it down where you can get the truck under the front and drop it on the ground get the wheel lift under the front and release the emergency brake and your gone. Now on to replacing the immobilizer and getting a couple of new fobs and all the programming done. 1000 bucks is my guess. In the owners manual it states if you loose a fob, get a replacement immediately and get it programmed

chrism07924 · Jun 4, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jun 4 2007, 03:14 PM) [snapback]455082[/snapback]</div>

nosed into the garage, slide the dolly cross bar under the back of the front tires, one under the front of the tires, hook on the actual dolly and cam them over and lock them. Hook the wheel lift on the back of the car and pull it out of the garage, total time without breaking a sweat 4 minutes. Set it down where you can get the truck under the front and drop it on the ground get the wheel lift under the front and release the emergency brake and your gone. Now on to replacing the immobilizer and getting a couple of new fobs and all the programming done. 1000 bucks is my guess. In the owners manual it states if you loose a fob, get a replacement immediately and get it programmed
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Good info on the dolly stuff, thanks. Actually, the tow guy mentioned (afterwards) he could have used a dolly, but seemed content with dragging it, and I wasn't wise enough to stop him and was going on the word of the 1800 Toyota folks who said it should not be an issue.

As for the manual and what it says, gimme a break. People are people, they don't read manuals, at least not completely, I honestly didn't read mine back-to-back, but rather concentrated on the service areas/chapters. And folks lose stuff, easily. Thank goodness it's nowhere close to $1,000. Try about $450 and change, and that's highway robbery if you ask me.

Just called Toyota to lodge a formal complaint against the dealership doing this fob programming, as they called my wife and said it wasn't going to be $375 but $475. All this for what amounts to a chincy piece of gumball machine electronics and a handheld computer to reprogram the fob. Bullshite!

It's like, here's the "logic": build into this great Prius vehicle all kinds of features to protect the customer from themselves...except the key fob. Oh, no, let them hose themselves and boy, they'll learn their lesson. C'mon Toyota, is that the message you really wanna send? MIT caliber people are designing these hybrid systems, and they have some one from Bozo the Clown U coming up with the Use Case, or lack thereof, but in the form of fob replacement hell. What do they want me to do *next* time, lop off a finger?

Pinto Girl · Jun 4, 2007

So you didn't read the manual ("no one does!"), lost both keys, and now are bitching to us about "Toyota's gumball machine electronics"?

Geez, how about sucking it up...admitting that you didn't handle the situation with as much smarts as you could have (you lost one key and never got around to replacing it? Hello!), learn from what happened, and move on.

Or, keep complaining to Toyota.

Only thing I have any sympathy for is the way the parking pawl can't be disengaged without powering on the car. That is --in my opinion-- an oversight on Toyota's part.

The rest of the stuff: pilot error.

roryjr · Jun 4, 2007

Pinto Girl, your picture always makes me smile.

priusmaybe · Jun 4, 2007

Bottom Line - the price is ridiculous. What does it actually cost them???

Swanny1172 · Jun 4, 2007

While I don't disagree that this situation could have easily been avoided, I also agree that Toyota has made it burdonsome to get replacement keys. I have read several postings about people who lost their fob because it disengaged from the key which was attached to their key ring. Seems like a design issue to Toyota's part there for sure. Also, I have read of people who have tried to buy used keys on eBay and have been told different stories from different dealerships about whether or not they can be programmed to another car.

Bottom line -- $300+ for a replacement key is ridiculous.

priusmaybe · Jun 4, 2007

Just like Priuschat has the "Warranty guy"

We need to find a few dealers that will give a break on the keys, especially if we still have one.

agile pagile · Jun 4, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jun 4 2007, 03:27 PM) [snapback]455153[/snapback]</div>

So you didn't read the manual ("no one does!"), lost both keys, and now are bitching to us about "Toyota's gumball machine electronics"?

Geez, how about sucking it up...admitting that you didn't handle the situation with as much smarts as you could have (you lost one key and never got around to replacing it? Hello!), learn from what happened, and move on.

Or, keep complaining to Toyota.

Only thing I have any sympathy for is the way the parking pawl can't be disengaged without powering on the car. That is --in my opinion-- an oversight on Toyota's part.

The rest of the stuff: pilot error.
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I must disagree with Pinto Girl. It's not pilot error but co-pilot error. There is no excuse for losing two fobs. Her fob should have been in her purse or pocket not on top of the car. With sks the fob doesn't need to be anywhere but somewhere safely on her person. Wife shouldn't be able to get anywhere near the Prius.

dmckinstry · Jun 4, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(agile pagile @ Jun 4 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]455181[/snapback]</div>

I must disagree with Pinto Girl. It's not pilot error but co-pilot error. There is no excuse for losing two fobs. Her fob should have been in her purse or pocket not on top of the car. With sks the fob doesn't need to be anywhere but somewhere safely on her person. Wife shouldn't be able to get anywhere near the Prius.
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Especially after not reporting the original loss.

The only time my Prius fob ever leaves my pocket is when I unlock the house door, or place it on the living room buffet before going to bed. If it's not in my pocket, it's in the house.

Dave M.

galaxee · Jun 4, 2007

more on the process of reprogramming keys when all are lost: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=22210

basically, they do contact the central toyota system through the VIN but have to get a code ("seed") from the car first, using the scantool. then the scantool is used to program the new key.

hobbit · Jun 4, 2007

A little bit of electronics *could* fire the pawl, probably even
from the car's own battery or an external one. Sort of like the
independent blower project I just threw together. You might be able
to advance the pawl motor manually by just hitting the 3 leads in the
right sequence over and over and over and over ... but with a 60:1
reduction ratio it would take a *long* time to pull it.
.
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/udh2/800/parkact.jpg
.
_H*

Frank Hudon · Jun 4, 2007

Toyota fobs are reasonably cheap, go price one for a Merc or a Beemer.

Found out how painful it is to lose key fob

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