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Four Blue Bars after short test drive??

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by SteveWlf, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    I went to check out a 2007, 82,000 miles, for sale by owner today. Intially, I only wanted to take it for a quick drive around several residential blocks. I failed to note the Traction battery indicator prior to start. Made slow progress at less than 20 mph while I circle several blocks. Returned to the drive way and switch the display and saw, to my surprise, only 4 blue bars. Hmmm! I left my foot on the brake and in gear, rev'ed the engine slightly and watched the display as the MG pump juice into the battery. I showed the situation to the seller (woman) in the passenger seat. I don't think she had ever seen or understood that displays utility. It took about 2 min to get into the green zone and then another min or 2 to reach full but the engine never did shut down, even when I let off the gas. No heater or other noticable excessary was on. Hmmm!
    I normally drive a 2002 gen1 and my battery stays up much longer than say 8 blocks and then recharges much faster. Even in hybrid mode, mixed driving, I rarely see anything but green bars or full charge.
    Is it possible that this battery has some problem at such low mileage?? The seller claimed now knowledge of any problem in the 3 year she owned it.

    Steve
     
  2. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    The battery being at 4 blue bars is not necessarily a problem. There can be a recalibration cycle that happens, such that the battery will suddenly change its SOC due to temperature change, or just sitting for a while. (This is different from the large swings seen just before a HV battery is about to go.) If it took a couple of minutes to force charge it, that is about right.

    What did the MFD say for MPG's?

    But, you should definitely notice the engine shutting down after sitting at a stop for a short while, usually about 10 seconds if it is not in Stage 4 already. If it doesn't, there is a potential problem with the 12V battery. Given that the owner is of the oblivious type, I would not be surprised that the 12V battery is original, has a shorted cell, and the engine is running trying to charge it, but can't get to the proper voltage. So check that first.
     
  3. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Dropping a couple of bars SOC is not uncommon when taking a short trip with the engine cold. If you force charged the battery to full-8 green bars then it may have even been turning the engine to dump some charge. You should have stopped at 6 or at most 7.
     
  4. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    I don't remember the exact mpg on the MFD at the time I was looking it over. Should have been on my 'check-list'.
    I agree that the problem may be in the 12v battery. It's going to be over 5 years old even though the mileage is only 82k. I know there is a procedure to view the 12v and HV SOC, etc.. but couldn't remember the "chicken dance" to get to that screen. I should print that out for future referance. I made an offer, far below Kelley BB on this car because of some other minor issues and if I get it I'm prepared to deal with these. I want it primarily because it has less than 100k miles and no damage history.

    On a related topic: I have noticed on another "Project" 2007 gen2 that I have. It is high mileage, ex-Yellow Cab, Road Kill with 285k miles, original HV battery. The battery voltage does drop to about 4 blue bars and a couple times, into the read bar range when I haven't run the engine in a while. I do keep the 12volt battery disconnected most of the time because of damage and possibility that other circuits might stay on. However, when I do run it I charge until the bars are near the top and then the engine will turn off. I can restart and get maybe another bar before it turns off again. Maybe I shouldn't force it beyond the intial shut down. Once I get it driveable I will see how the HV charge behaves under normal operations.

    Steve
     
  5. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Update!
    I purchased this car at a reduced price owing to my concerns including the unknowns about the battery condition. Knowing in the back of my mind that, worst case, I have a spare battery in my growing collection for salvaged parts.

    Went to pick it up today and went with the seller for a 5 mile drive, on mostly residentual streets, to his bank so he could clear my cashiers check. Everything seemed normal. Got back to his house and he cleared all his stuff out of the car while I loaded a few things in. I didn't really notice that he had left it (I think) in nuetral in but in ready. He left while his wife was still on hand. I got in to drive away and when ever I tried to put it into drive I got the 'red triagle of death' and the MFD Caution "shift the position into P when parking... The batteries will not charge if the transmission is in Nuetral (P)." Not to familiar with these message, I fumbled around and got it to drive around the block while it charged enough for the red Triangle to go a way. However, I still had only a couple Blue bars. Figured, what the hell. Gotta drive to get the HV battery charge and proceded on my 100 mile trip home with my friend following in my Gen1 (and knowing I had road service insurance in effect already. Not sure how that would help!).

    The trip home went fine as I watched the SOC of the HV on the Energy Monitor display. It took about 4 miles of level and some steep down hill to get up to some Green bars and it wasn't until I went a ways on the freeway that I got to nine bars. Stayed there all the way home. Took my co-driver home and in the residential driving at slow speeds I notice if I did only a little slow driving in EV the SOC went back down to below half and took some miles to get back to 9 Green bars. Again, never saw a full charge.

    What do you guy think?? Seems like this battery needs a Top Balancing! Puzzled but still no regrets. Nice car for the price. Or some could say, "you get what you pay for".

    Steve
     
  6. HaroldW

    HaroldW Active Member

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    Sounds very normal. The red triangle was probably because you did not step on the brake before shifting to D? H
     
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  7. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Your experience seems rather normal. Engine, catalytic converter, and defroster settings all can force the ICE to run, even with a middle SOC. The computer algorithms are constantly trying to keep a middle SOC, but they're hardly perfect. Optimally, you'd never seen green bars except on a downhill. What really bothers me is when it's showing green at the start of a downhill - doesn't it know the route? Well, no, it has no idea.

    What would worry me is if the SOC quickly bounced between the extremes. Another worrying condition would be stopping the car with high SOC, and having it low the next time it's started. Obviously a constant low SOC indicates trouble.
     
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  8. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    The red triangle and message is normal if the door is open, the ignition ON, and the transmission is not in Park. Maybe there's a problem with the door-open sensor?
     
  9. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Yah! after reading these comments and in retrospect, being unfamiliar with the Gen2/coming over from the Gen1. Problably had something to do with confusion over the Park button not being pressed by the seller while leaving it in N.
    I still have some concern about the SOC dropping so repidly even with a short EV distance, especially when arriving at ones destination, then turning off the whole system. I think this would be common event such as residental and parking garages. I know that I only live two blocks off my freeway exit and have a RR crossing a couple turns before pulling into my carport. Unless I am driving agressively, that two block will most likely be in EV at about 10 mph. Sound ideal except that i have partially depleated my traction battery when I turn it off. The next morning I leave and reverse the route but with low SOC.. ("Sorry, just thinking out loud!")

    Thanks for the responses.
    Steve
     
  10. roflwaffle

    roflwaffle Member

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    IME the SOC can drop fairly rapidly when the car is on the cold side because the car tends to pull more juice out of the pack to allow the engine to warm up w/o as much load on it, the pack itself can be on the cold side, which will lower it's apparent voltage, and having cold oil/trans fluid/grease just adds to the energy required to move the car down the road.
     
  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Your looking at this all wrong.

    Being green all the time is bad. Its bad in the sense that either your driving condition warrants constant on/off of the pedal or you don't know how to properly drive a Prius. Its sure not a yardstick of battery health.

    The first thing you try to learn to get good mileage in a Prius is keep it from a green charge. Lots of turtles.
    Green charge means unnecessary motive energy was wasted in regen getting it hyper charged. When my wife drives the car and could care less about hyper she's always in the green and gets 44 mpg's falling off a log.
    When I drive it I can get 52 and never in the green.

    A really good hypermiler never see's green. Always in the blue. And its not good thing to consistently stow the car with a green battery.
     
  12. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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  13. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Stop worrying! The car is acting perfectly normal from what I have read through all your posts. The MFD triangle that went away is not a problem. It is because the door was open. And Wth was the car in N? Don't do that. Leave it in D and unless you live on a mountain, it should never see B mode either. P-R-D are the only places it should ever be in 99.9% of normal driving.

    Green bars are bad. The battery wants to stay blue. This prolongs the HV battery life. All green bars is 80% and too full. 1 purple/pink bar is 40% and is too low. In both cases the car will spin the engine. When 80% full, it will spin the engine and waste energy to bring the SOC lower into a sweet spot. When 40% it will charge up to 3 bars then shut off.

    The Prius is not an EV. Coming from a GenI, you should know this. You will get worse mileage in most situations driving in EV mode, anywhere. It is fun to creep, but it is detrimental to MPGs. Even with a very healthy fully charged battery, you will only get a mile or so out of the HV battery. It is essentially a big buffer, it is not meant to be the main motive power source.

    Also keep in mind the Prius is built for the lowest emmisions, not the highest miles per gallon. It is just a perk. So when you start the car, after 7 seconds (sooner if the HV battery is less than 3 bars, cold, or hot) the engine will start. Even if you don't move. This is part of the "warming cycle" and there are 4 stages. When the engine shuts off, usually 1 minute later at normal temperatures from a cold start, it is in Stage 4 and considered in normal drive modes. Before that the engine will be running rich to warm up faster. It burns fuel just to heat itself and the coolant loop. While in this mode, the car does not want to use the ICE to drive the car because it will emit worse emissions. So as you move around, most of the power is coming from the battery, even though the ICE is running. Only if you NEED power, like stomping on the pedal, will the engine reluctantly rev up and help but then go back to warmup mode. So if you are driving, before the engine shuts off for the first time, your battery will drop like a rock.
     
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  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    What 2K said:​
     
  15. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    A very simple measure of battery health is to look at battery temperature. A battery which only shows minor thermal rise from normal driving is a happy battery.