Four Rules....and...When Blanks Aren't.

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ETC(SS), Nov 11, 2021.

  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    This is consistent with mine. The hammer architecture piece can be done this way, while the striker piece needs to be dry fired.
    Early training may be a factor. I was originally taught to not dry fire rimfires, and be sparing on centerfires. Enough other people felt the same that there are dummy cartridge placeholders with rubber primers specifically to cushion the firing pin for extended dry firing. Real or imagined, this seems to have at least some historical basis.

    Only much later did I acquire a striker-type system where dry firing was a necessary part of disassembly and cleaning.
    Same here. But safety refreshers are both worthwhile, and sometimes more broad. AROTC rifle team was more rigorous than the School of Dad. Then later basic CWP training was stronger still, and more consistent with the demands of various target leagues.
     
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  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Many states have laws covering reckless endangerment and criminally negligent homicide.
    I'm on the side of imposing this on projects that refuse to require standard safety training for everyone. And on those cutting budget corners, e.g. making armorers and prop masters and ADs and other safety positions do multiple jobs simultaneously.

    Multitasking just doesn't work as well as many people expect.
    Numerous people are "inspired" by both big and small screens. And when (from another article) ...
    ... guess what happens.

    When this behavior is glorified and pedaled for profit by personalities of a certain 'safety' advocacy group, the incongruity is mind boggling. Similar to a prominent MADD spokesperson or Prohibition advocate causing a DUI fatality.
     
  3. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Accidents DO happen. Following safety procedures minimizes the risk. Many decades ago I was out hunting with a buddy of mine, he was a LEO. He was loading his shotgun - slugs, deer season. The safety was on. There was an unintended discharge. His fingers were nowhere near the trigger. We checked the safety again - it was set to safe. He unloaded it and cased it and we called it a day. What was the life-saving safety procedure being used? He had the barrel pointed down at the ground, not at anything that could sustain damage, or worse.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    while this is a high profile case, no doubt there are many negligent gun homicides every year, not to mention the intentional ones. (although i just did:))
     
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  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    And even someone you'd expect to know better can have a brain fart. Here's a big one.

    Constant concentration is essential.
     
  6. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    Back in the day (once upon a time in Boot Camp) we learned how to field strip a .45 and I also received an Expert Marksman ribbon using a S&W .38 (2" barrel.) The muzzle velocity of the S&W was so low I could watch the arc of the bullet, so had to aim high to hit the target. Weapon safety was instilled in us repeatedly, and to this day the safety protocols are second nature whenever I have a weapon in my hand.
     
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Ah!
    MORE eduction opportunities.

    Shotguns are almost always NOT DROP SAFE!
    This is one of the MAIN reasons that you ALWAYS follow the Four Rules.
    LEOs and folks in dot.mil are often taught about a condition called “Cruiser Safe” or Cruiser Ready, meaning magazine tube loaded, hammer forward (slide released,) and safety off (or on, according to preference.)
    This condition is named for…Police Cruisers which often ARE subjected to bumps, jumps, jolts, etc.

    Shotguns are usually NOT equipped with hammer or firing pin blocks, and it takes a relatively small bump or jolt to cause one to fire accidentally even when the TRIGGER safety is properly engaged.
    Hunters are usually not able to keep their scatter guns in ‘cruiser ready’ when they’re in the field, which is why many states require hunter safety courses to reinforce the 4 firearms safety rules.

    Those interested readers who take my President’s sage advice about “just getting a shotgun” for home defense, and ALL firearms owners should be aware of this when storing (or choosing) a home security system.

    Chris Baker Explains below.
    I don’t buy their ammo, but their YouTube vids are remarkably educational, and nearly always free from the gratuitous testosterone and political feces that the YouTubes are loaded with on this subject.
    They WILL dig it if you like and sub, but frankly, they probably make their money on the storefront selling ammo, and I doubt very seriously if the Tubes monetizes them.

     
    #27 ETC(SS), Nov 13, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    New interview:

    ""The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger," Baldwin said in an excerpt released Wednesday from the sit-down interview"

    Yeah, right. Uh-huh. We've heard that excuse sooo many times before. That is why basic gun safety training has had redundant overlapping safety rules since before he was born.

    "Baldwin has said he believes police officers should be present on "every film/TV set that uses guns, fake or otherwise" to monitor weapons safety."

    I find that neither necessary nor sufficient. Instead, I would require everyone involved on both ends of the guns, and their entire on-site management chain, to have basic state hunter or NRA or equivalent gun safety training. And an experienced armorer who is not multitasking with additional duties from another production assignment. And to strongly reconsider the concept of having camera operators stationed downrange when remote controls are possible.

    Also, AB should consider better legal counsel, from someone able to stop him from digging his hole deeper.
     
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  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Useful idiot.....
    ..."Don't do that."

    As far as the hypocrisy?
    Others have weighed in much more effectively than I can.

    One dead.
    Two wounded.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's going to be an interesting trial(s)
     
  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Not really, other than the usual civil lawsuits.

    There WAS a homicide (obviously) along with another gunshot victim, but I'm pretty sure that there was zero intent, and being criminally stupid, arrogant, and/or hypocritical, usually ISN'T a CRIME, even in New Mexico, where people tend to have a little more walking around sense about such things.

    Alec's elitist status will work both FOR and AGAINST him in court, despite his best efforts to alienate any possible juror.....even before they meet him in person.

    One expects that there will be a pro-forma hearing and a plea to 5th degree misdemeanor something or other.

    HE was 100-percent at fault.
    Period.
    Full Stop.
    That's sorta how it works with firearms barring a mechanical failure, and even then HE was STILL 100-percent at fault...
    One could....and SOME may argue that NOBODY could be that cosmically stupid - but Einstein's old rule still applies:

    The difference between genius and stupidity is that there's a limit to genius.

    So....
    ANOTHER thing that the entertainment industry is completely hypocritical about.

    WHAT COULD BE particularly "interesting" or "new" about that?????

    :sleep:
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think criminal charges could be filed for negligence
     
  13. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    There is a thing called criminally negligent homicide, which is a lower lever than (intentional) murder. But details vary by state.
    I have no issue with applying full responsibility to everyone in the custody and management chains, from the trigger puller to the top of site management, who had responsibility to prevent this incident. No limit on the sum total of percents.

    AB appears unique in occupying two separate links of those chains: trigger puller, and project producer. That gives him 200% responsibility.
     
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  14. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I totally agree. Each person who either handled the weapon or was in charge of the operation is 100% responsible. That's because if any single one of them had done things properly, it would have been just another day on the set.
     
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  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    When this thing comes to trial, and since AB is a proven idiot, it almost certainly WILL come to trial…much will be said about firearms safety and handling.

    Revolvers, and most especially Single Action revolvers are becoming WILDLY popular these days, and one can quickly disappear down a rabbit hole of technically dense jabber about the different types of pistols.

    COWBOY ACTION (single action) revolvers are “safer” than they were 150 years ago with the addition of government mandated hammer blocks and transfer bars - which in no way detracts from the appearance or the function of these types weapons. It will be interesting to find out if these safety features were present in the firearm used on set, but in the end it matters little in the actual case.
    An educational squirrel-hunt, at best.

    Since there might actually be somebody out there that wants to….er….’arm’ themselves with a little bit of knowledge on the subject…..here’s a …..er…..’primer.’
    It’s a bit old and a lot dry but it serves.

    I WILL ADD…that “Glock-action” pistols are now almost always just called “striker-fired” and there is a relatively new type of Revolver called a DAA - or Double Action Only - which is a normal DA revolver with a shrouded hammer than cannot be thumb-cocked.
    These are very popular with the concealed carry crowd because “spur-less” hammers tend not to get snagged on the draw stroke, and it it better to learn to shoot a double action revolver…IN DOUBLE ACTION, rather than thumb-cocking each shot.

    Just in case there is an interest in the subject…….

     
    #35 ETC(SS), Dec 2, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    he found a good lawyer who came up with the 'i didn't pull the trigger' idea.

    throws a little bit of confusion into public opinion and potential jurors.
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Exactly one place in that video where the closed captions didn't blank out that word for ... what you do with a hammer so it can be fired.

    I wonder how the algorithm missed that one.
     
  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    A lawyer who's watched too many movies?
    (skim ahead to about 49 seconds)
     
  19. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Yeah.....there's THAT.

    I can at least respect somebody who opposes private firearms ownership if (a) they have the slightest working knowledge ABOUT firearms and (b) if a sizeable portion of their income was not realized by portraying firearms in a nearly fact-free and completely sensationalized manner.

    Buuuuut

    That's Hollywood for you.
     
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I would say the opposite, they are digging his hole deeper. Working towards scoring an own-goal.

    But this likely derives from the difference in how people are familiar with guns. People who grew up with and using firearms primarily in a sporting and recreational context, and very familiar with the phrase "gun safety" in its original meaning, likely have a very different view of AB's statements than do people who get their gun exposure primarily from street crime news and violent Hollywood entertainment, and use "gun safety" as the new kinder gentler phrase for gun control.
     
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